CPL Lew suicide after hazing. What's your take?

[Chief]

Marine gets jail time, reduced rank in hazing case - Yahoo! News

KANEOHE BAY, Hawaii (AP) — A Hawaii-based Marine lance corporal will spend 30 days in jail and have his rank reduced to private first class for punching and kicking a fellow Marine who killed himself shortly afterward, a judge ruled late Monday, saying she found no evidence the abuse led to the suicide.

Lance Cpl. Jacob Jacoby, 21, who pleaded guilty to assault, acknowledged he punched and kicked Lance Cpl. Harry Lew, of Santa Clara, Calif., out of anger and frustration that the fellow Marine repeatedly fell asleep while on watch for Taliban fighters.

I've never served in combat. Sleeping on watch is a pretty serious offense though... and if your watch is somewhere like Afghanistan, it's no joke that it can get people killed. So this guy repeatedly slept on watch, they made him do some push ups, kicked sand in his face, yelled at him, punched him in his body armor... They already had used their chain of command to try to handle this guy and the COC reduced the number of watches he stood, reportedly so that he could get some sleep, and yet he still slept on watch.

So, what would you have done?

[Roshi]

Wow what a COC failure. Firstly, how the fuck was he not demoted for falling asleep? I know people who did that shit stateside, and they all got demoted. Even NCOs.

After being caught sleeping in a combat zone, I am assuming he was either an observation post or a listening post, first time would have been a reprimand. Second time one paygrade reduction, third time, taken off the line and demoted to next lowest paygrade or discharge under other than honorable conditions. Obviously he imperilled his whole units safety and security and mission. Putting the lance corporal in prison would never have happened under my command. He would have been reprimanded, sent to anger management therapy and that would have been the end of that. The CO and Platoon Leader let this get out of hand and they should also have been reprimanded with a negative OER for dereliction of their duties as commanders.

[Blueneck]

Marine gets jail time, reduced rank in hazing case - Yahoo! News



I've never served in combat. Sleeping on watch is a pretty serious offense though... and if your watch is somewhere like Afghanistan, it's no joke that it can get people killed. So this guy repeatedly slept on watch, they made him do some push ups, kicked sand in his face, yelled at him, punched him in his body armor... They already had used their chain of command to try to handle this guy and the COC reduced the number of watches he stood, reportedly so that he could get some sleep, and yet he still slept on watch.

So, what would you have done?

Ordered him to take a nap in the afternoon and brink a large thermos of coffee with him on watch?

[Tedminator]

CPL Lew suicide after hazing. What's your take?

sad incident

[Sparta]

So, what would you have done?

I was fortunate enough to serve with a unit that would have kicked this dirtbag out for falling asleep on watch, I honestly can't think of anything worse than doing that. If you fall asleep on watch and end up getting your teeth kicked in you count yourself lucky you're alive to catch your well deserved ass beating.

I've lost family to suicide, and my opinion on the matter is if someone kills themselves they're mentally ill, there's nothing you should have done, or could have done differently to change that. The kid would have killed himself for getting dumped by a girl or fucking up his credit or not liking what he saw in the mirror. Not Jacoby's fault this kid is dead.

[Blueneck]

I was fortunate enough to serve with a unit that would have kicked this dirtbag out for falling asleep on watch, I honestly can't think of anything worse than doing that. If you fall asleep on watch and end up getting your teeth kicked in you count yourself lucky you're alive to catch your well deserved ass beating.

I've lost family to suicide, and my opinion on the matter is if someone kills themselves they're mentally ill, there's nothing you should have done, or could have done differently to change that. The kid would have killed himself for getting dumped by a girl or fucking up his credit or not liking what he saw in the mirror. Not Jacoby's fault this kid is dead.

I agree that there was likely not anything anyone could have done, but the inability to stay awake is often a sign of depression. The guy was probably really unhappy about other things, and it may have been a large part of the reason he joined the military to begin with. Then maybe when he discovered he was letting everyone down by falling asleep all the time, he just figured "Oh great I suck at this too" and decided there was no hope for him.

I'm just guessing though. I think by the time people get to the point of taking their own lives, they don't let on about what's bothering them because they figure it's no use talking about it. They just want out.

I doubt it was just this one thing that drove him to kill himself, but more likely he had other issues.

[boontito]

I agree with Sparta and in addition this particular problem goes upward from there. The first time it happens, steps should be taken to fix the problem. If it keeps happening then there is something wrong with superiors who insist on putting the rest of his men in danger by insisting they be protected by someone who repeatedly falls asleep on watch.

[Chief]

This makes me think of a few things. One, this wasn't hazing... at least not as its reported. There should be a way to remove the people that are not cut out for it to the point that they'll be a danger to their unit. Also, there needs to be more time off after deployments.

[Mayor Snorkum]

It doesn't seem to be a case of "hazing". It seems to be a matter of getting really pissed off as a dumbshit who repeatedly put the lives of fellow Marines at peril.

Hazing is an initiation rite, like a former nonqual getting dolphins tacked on by shipmates who already earned their dolphins, or the Shellback Ceremony for the crewmates who'd never crossed the equator before. (The Mayor was never in southern latitudes, so his knowledge of the process is hearsay.)

The probition against all hazing is bullshit and serves to weaken crew unity. Which isn't to say they're aren't assholes who take it to extremes. We had this one cook who had a reputation for attempting to drill those new dolphins into the newly qualified submariner's spine. And we had a petty officer from the skimmer fleet who said to hell with that and tied a one-inch thick steel flange under his poopysuit, and begged the offensive PO2 to be the "very first one" to tack it on. Watching him cook for the remainder of hte mission with sprained wrist was amusing, to say the least. The CO and XO wisely noticed nothing. And the asshole cook never tried to do that to anyone ever again.

What is needed are clear rules on what constitutes acceptable hazing. Because it's necessary, in part to find out who the weaklings are in a military unit.

But the reported incident most certainly was not hazing.

The man who punched him out was punished because HIS CO, as is far too common, refused to take effective action against a man who was a clear threat to the safety of others. Sleeping on watch is one of the most dangerous things anyone can do, in most circumstances.