The story of Han Solo..

**MajikMyst** · 9th June 2010 12:21 AM

Imagine the following argument:

Person 1: "Han Solo is a lot like Doctor Who - Solo built the Millenium Falcon, and Doctor Who built the Tardis."

Person 2: "But Han didn't build the Millenium Falcon, he won it off Lando."

Person 1: "Why are you bothering me with facts? Don't you understand - it doesn't matter what Han really did. Only the stories!"

I'm sure you can see here that Person 1 has missed the point. Person 2, like Person 1, was only interested in the stories. When he presented a fact to refute Person's 1 claim, his fact was that, in the stories, Han didn't build the Millenium Falcon. Claiming that he did is an empirical statement that can be checked, even though neither Han nor the Millenium Falcon really exist..

Similarly, when you make claims about Horus, even though we're only talking about stories, these are still empirical claims that can be checked by looking at the stories. Like the guy above arguing about Han Solo and the Millenium Falcon, I understand that your sole claim is that the stories are similar. When I point out errors in your claims, what I am pointing out is that these aren't what's really in the stories, just as Han didn't really build the Millenium Falcon in the stories.

So, let's consider your evidence that they are in the stories. The sole piece of evidence you're showing us is the list of similarities repeated ad nauseum over the internet. This list, even though it only makes claims about stories, can still be true or false, depending on what's actually in those stories. This is the lie I was talking about spreading around the web while the truth is still tying its laces. The man who first claimed that Horus was baptised at 30 (according to the stories about him) was lying, because Horus was not baptised at 30 (according to the stories about him).

Do you understand?

I understand what your saying but you are still not getting it.. Stories do not need evidence.. Stories are what they are.. I am also not messing the story up.. I am quoting it as it appears on the internet.. So it isn't an issue of saying the story was told wrong... I am telling it as it appears on the internet.. I have pasted it as it appears on the internet..

You have not shown me any stories that despute what I have said.. Even if you did they would simply be different stories.. What if there was a story in which Han built his ship?? Just like there is a story that he married Leah.. There are stories about Luke getting married too.. There are all kinds of stories..

My point was that the story of Horus is very much the same as the story of Christ.. That is a fact.. It can't be desputed.. You can find it on countless websites.. Whether the story is true of factual is irrelevent..

Questioning the truth of a story is nothing but idiocy.. It is called a story for a reason.. While some stories are based on truth, or may actually br true.. Since I made no claim the story of Horus was true.. I don't need to prove it is..

That is where most if not all christians get into trouble.. For them to make the claim that the bible or anything in it as truth.. Then they must prove that it is true.. Faith does not make it so.. Faith means you believe it is true but can't prove it.. That doesn't mean everyone must or does have faith.. I believe the bible is nothing more than a collection of books.. All of which are fiction.. But in these books are some good lessons about life.. Not unlike any of the current stories we have.. Anyone seen the move 'How to train your dragon'? It is a good story.. But the message was that we don't always have the right answers.. Sometimes what we all know is wrong.. So their baseless book on how dangerous and deadly dragons were, ended up being on what wonderful pets and helper they could be..

The moral is, don't base your knowlege on something that has no base or evidence.. Like the bible.. Go out and find the real answers.. He who seeks the truth will be rewarded with the truth..

In your case Caff.. You need to learn to simply accept what is.. The stories are there on the internet.. Right or wrong they are they.. These stories are very simular to the story of Christ.. Right or wrong.. The stories are there and they are close to being the same with each other..

The true truth here.. None of this really matters.. Horus at least existed.. Nobody can even prove the existence of Christ and it is doubtful that his story is true either..

But? As it is told, it is the same as the story of Horus and Caffiene?? Just wait!! I will write a story about you and soon countless Christian webistes will be busting their butts trying to disprove it...

This is the truth of the internet.. But not the truth about reality.. Or is it?

**caffeine** · 9th June 2010 02:29 AM

[quote name='MajikMyst' date='09 June 2010 - 08:21 AM' timestamp='1276064519' post='159720']

I understand what your saying but you are still not getting it.. Stories do not need evidence.. Stories are what they are.. I am also not messing the story up.. I am quoting it as it appears on the internet.. So it isn't an issue of saying the story was told wrong... I am telling it as it appears on the internet.. I have pasted it as it appears on the internet..

You have not shown me any stories that despute what I have said.. Even if you did they would simply be different stories.. What if there was a story in which Han built his ship?? Just like there is a story that he married Leah.. There are stories about Luke getting married too.. There are all kinds of stories..

My point was that the story of Horus is very much the same as the story of Christ.. That is a fact.. It can't be desputed.. You can find it on countless websites.. Whether the story is true of factual is irrelevent..

Questioning the truth of a story is nothing but idiocy.. It is called a story for a reason.. While some stories are based on truth, or may actually br true.. Since I made no claim the story of Horus was true.. I don't need to prove it is.. [/quote]

I am aware that you are posting the story simply as it appears on the internet in lists of the similarities between Jesus and Horus. This is a key thing to note. If you actually go and seek accounts of Egyptian mythology, discussing beliefs about Horus and citing ancient Egyptian literature, youâ€™ll notice that these Jesus similarities are all absent from the story.

Stories do not need evidence, because theyâ€™re not factual. Saying â€˜x is in a storyâ€™, however, is a factual statement, and does need evidence. The point being here is that your sole piece of evidence is one list (it doesnâ€™t matter how many times its repeated on the internet, itâ€™s still only one list). The book sometimes cited as the source, the Book of the Dead, contains none of the details itâ€™s supposed to, casting suspicion on the list. No excerpts are anywhere offered from ancient texts to support that this was what people believed at the time, while excerpts can easily be found offering alternative accounts.

It is correct, like you say, that there could be different, contradictory ancient accounts of Horusâ€™ life, just like there are of Jesusâ€™. Indeed â€“ there are. Horus is sometimes the son of Isis and Osiris, sometimes of Hathor, who is in other stories his lover. The fact that one stele recounts Osiris pumping Isis full of his manly godseed doesnâ€™t prove that there were no other traditions in which the birth was virgin.

But all of this misses the point that there are no signs of these stories anywhere! The sole, singular, unique, individual piece of evidence is one list trumpeted around the internet, adapted from a century old book by Gerald Massey.

If these really were genuine accounts of the stories told about Horus a few thousand years ago, then it should be simple to find some sign of them somewhere that isnâ€™t simply copied from this same list. Again, fictional stories donâ€™t need evidence, but the factual statement â€˜People in Ancient Egypt believed this set of facts about a god called Horusâ€™ does.

Lots of bether about the the Bible(...)

In your case Caff.. You need to learn to simply accept what is.. The stories are there on the internet.. Right or wrong they are they.. These stories are very simular to the story of Christ.. Right or wrong.. The stories are there and they are close to being the same with each other..

As I mentioned before, the internet is overrun by creationist websites endlessly repeating the same untruths about radiometric dating, the fossil record, the scientific method etc, but I donâ€™t have to accept what they say, because they arenâ€™t true. The same applies to lists of made-up accounts of ancient Egyptian belief, no matter how many times theyâ€™re repeated.

The true truth here.. None of this really matters.. Horus at least existed.. Nobody can even prove the existence of Christ and it is doubtful that his story is true either..

And here it becomes clear that you donâ€™t actually read anything that I write. Iâ€™ve responded to this twice and yet you seem intent on ignoring it and repeating the same things over and over again. Horus didnâ€™t exist! Worship of the god Horus predates the written record. How could have any evidence of a historical Horus?

**MajikMyst** · 12th June 2010 01:42 AM

[quote name='caffeine' date='09 June 2010 - 12:29 AM' timestamp='1276072182' post='159730']

I am aware that you are posting the story simply as it appears on the internet in lists of the similarities between Jesus and Horus. This is a key thing to note. If you actually go and seek accounts of Egyptian mythology, discussing beliefs about Horus and citing ancient Egyptian literature, youâ€™ll notice that these Jesus similarities are all absent from the story.[/quote]

That is just it.. I was not quoting egyptian literature or seeking accounts of egyptian mythology.. Just the story on the internet.. Just the simularities mentioned in a couple of movies and documentries about Christ.. That is all..

It all depends on the which story you read..

http://www.starwars.com/databank/cha...ker/index.html

Behold, the wife of Luke Skywalker.. Yet never happened in the story told by the movies.. As you can see.. It all depends on what story you read..

**kmiller1610** · 12th June 2010 07:26 AM

The veracity of something can be partly validated by people's responses.

There is no similarity between Horus and Christ based on lives changed, civilizations built, hospitals founded, social service agencies built, universities founded and the expansion of literacy, all due to the life of one man.

No comparison at all.

**caffeine** · 14th June 2010 01:56 AM

[quote name='MajikMyst' date='12 June 2010 - 09:42 AM' timestamp='1276328557' post='160365']That is just it.. I was not quoting egyptian literature or seeking accounts of egyptian mythology.. Just the story on the internet.. [/quote]

And therein lies the inherent problem with your argument. If the stories don't come from old Egyptian mythology, then they tell us nothing about the origin of the Jesus myth. If these stories only originated in the 19th century, then it means that the stories of Jesus were not copied from Horus. It means that people made up new stories about Horus copied from the stories of Jesus.

The veracity of something can be partly validated by people's responses.

There is no similarity between Horus and Christ based on lives changed, civilizations built, hospitals founded, social service agencies built, universities founded and the expansion of literacy, all due to the life of one man.

No comparison at all.

Nonsense. You forget that people believed the Horus myth for thousands of years, and all the people setting up sickhouses in Ancient Egypt in the name of the goddess Sekhmet were probably convinced of its truth.