Thread: Question about the origin of Christianity.

I have recently been doing a bit of reading concerning the era in which Jesus existed. Certainly there was plenty of turmoil surrounding the reign of King Herod, and he had done plenty to both appease and anger the Romans. If the timing would have been different, and if Jesus had been born and raised in countries where there was less political jockeying and protest going on, would there have been the correct conditions for Christianity to rise? Certainly Josephus recorded the dissent that was going on between the Jews and the Romans.

Please note that I am an atheist, though I certainly do not dispute the existence of the man named Jesus and the religious movement he started.

How did Jesus perform miracles if He was just a man?

Originally Posted by Zaragrunudgeyon

How did Jesus perform miracles if He was just a man?

Zara, that is not what I asked. I simply acknowledged that I don't think he is the son of a God. I really think the question regarding the creation of Christianity out of Judaism was a valid one. If you want to debate the powers of Christ, then start a thread about it.

I think that many historians would agree that the Roman Empire's decline and the agnosticism surrounding its own religion provided a unique opportunity for a new religion. It was still a huge empire, so there was freedom to move around and the folks who ran Rome were initially convinced that Christians were not a great threat. My estimate is that the people had grown weary of the Olympian "Gods" and their Roman imitations. A more personal God who was "made flesh" and "walked among us" was a pretty compelling idea.

So to answer your question, I do not think local conditions had much to do with the rise of the faith. If you read the letters of Paul to the Romans, The Corinthians, the Ephesians, the Philippians (and others), it is clear that the church grew away from Jesus' home and rapidly.

Romans chapter 1:

To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints:
Grace and peace to you from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ. First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is being reported all over the world. God, whom I serve with my whole heart in preaching the gospel of his Son, is my witness how constantly I remember you in my prayers at all times; and I pray that now at last by God's will the way may be opened for me to come to you. I long to see you so that I may impart to you some spiritual gift to make you strong— that is, that you and I may be mutually encouraged by each other's faith. I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that I planned many times to come to you (but have been prevented from doing so until now) in order that I might have a harvest among you, just as I have had among the other Gentiles. I am obligated both to Greeks and non-Greeks, both to the wise and the foolish. That is why I am so eager to preach the gospel also to you who are at Rome. I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last,just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith."

Originally Posted by Zaragrunudgeyon

How did Jesus perform miracles if He was just a man?

There is no proof that He did, shoot, people tell all kinds of stories about their heroes and mythical figures--doesn't mean they're true.

Originally Posted by Mare Tranquillity

There is no proof that He did, shoot, people tell all kinds of stories about their heroes and mythical figures--doesn't mean they're true.

'Course those people usually call what they write fiction and they are not willing to die to preserve the fiction.

Sorry TFM, I'll bring this to another thread if it goes on.

Originally Posted by Think for myself

I have recently been doing a bit of reading concerning the era in which Jesus existed. Certainly there was plenty of turmoil surrounding the reign of King Herod, and he had done plenty to both appease and anger the Romans. If the timing would have been different, and if Jesus had been born and raised in countries where there was less political jockeying and protest going on, would there have been the correct conditions for Christianity to rise? Certainly Josephus recorded the dissent that was going on between the Jews and the Romans.

Please note that I am an atheist, though I certainly do not dispute the existence of the man named Jesus and the religious movement he started.

If it was planned by God then there could have been no stopping it. If it was just the result of a series of events then certainly any number of things could have resulted in it petering out eventually.

At the time of the origins of Christianity some people who were there asked the same question:

"When they heard this, they were furious and wanted to put them to death. 34But a Pharisee named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law, who was honored by all the people, stood up in the Sanhedrin and ordered that the men be put outside for a little while. 35Then he addressed them: "Men of Israel, consider carefully what you intend to do to these men. 36Some time ago Theudas appeared, claiming to be somebody, and about four hundred men rallied to him. He was killed, all his followers were dispersed, and it all came to nothing. 37After him, Judas the Galilean appeared in the days of the census and led a band of people in revolt. He too was killed, and all his followers were scattered. 38Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. 39But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God."

I don't think this answers the question definitively but it shed light on it.

OK on a different tact:

The message of Jesus and the reason for the success of Christianity it that it speaks to the hearts and minds of all people in a timeless way. Was Jesus just a really good speaker or was He God? (this is the famous liar, lunatic, Lord question)

The message of Jesus and the reason for the success of Christianity it that it speaks to the hearts and minds of all people in a timeless way.

That doesn't explain why it was Christianity that spread and not any other philosophy with the same ideas. There's not much particularly unique in Christian ideology.

If we want to look at the specific factors in the spread of Christianity, it has to be Pauline Christianity we're looking at, and the relationship with Rome; as that's what made it into a major global religion.

I've started a
new thread to prevent this one getting bogged down in talk of Jesus' miracles.

You ask a very good question, TFM. In some ways I think the political turmoil was necessary in order for Jesus to fulfill His mission. I also think Jesus knew this was to happen. If you consider what Jesus did, as described in the Bible, it was His mission to take upon Himself the sins of the world and sacrifice His life in an effort to overcome sin and death (spiritual and physical death). Whether you believe this is true or not, it is what is discussed within the Bible.

It is a nice idea to think that Jesus could have done much better to establish Christianity and Christian teachings in a different country, although I do not believe that was His main mission at the time. Also, anyone that begins announcing they are the Son of God, no matter what country they are in, I think would still create some level of animosity.

Originally Posted by Think for myself

I have recently been doing a bit of reading concerning the era in which Jesus existed. Certainly there was plenty of turmoil surrounding the reign of King Herod, and he had done plenty to both appease and anger the Romans. If the timing would have been different, and if Jesus had been born and raised in countries where there was less political jockeying and protest going on, would there have been the correct conditions for Christianity to rise? Certainly Josephus recorded the dissent that was going on between the Jews and the Romans.

Please note that I am an atheist, though I certainly do not dispute the existence of the man named Jesus and the religious movement he started.

The problem is that history from that time aside from the Bible was written by the Church and complete linear copys of that don't exist. Besides nobody wanted to tell the Church what was going because Jesus was not in the Church industry, because of unwanted entanglement and lot's of competition.

Jesus was in the publishing industry, the apostles were too. The Bible is actualy the biggest mini-series of it's time like The Sopranos in a few ways, but it was great because by putting forth the idea of being nice to your fellow man people became able to dream of becoming something else. The old testament is the same but obviously more of a rule book for the politically entrenched. All of the books in the Bible new are like the Lord of the Rings and the Star Wars Trilogies, hugely popular and with real life lessons to learn from them.