Thread: If God Created The Universe

Who created God? Arguing the principle of first causes leads one, logically, to this question.

Originally Posted by johnlocke

Who created God? Arguing the principle of first causes leads one, logically, to this question.

In the context of the universe He is the first cause of what we know as matter or physical universe. The question of first cause goes no further than God. The question has to apply to the spiritual dimension because God is a Spirit.In that I do not know it is not provided for us in the scriptures. They say He always was and always will be having no beginning and no end.That He is eternal. But once again in the context of creation He was the first cause.

And that is a logical impossibility. If one is to imply that causality requires both cause and effect one cannot logically argue that the creation of God is excluded from the set of things included under the rules of causality. If God is exempted, based on principles of religious dogma, then one may argue (with equal logic) that giant flying pink elephants created the universe or created God.

This question is quite pointless simply for the fact that in asking who created God, you would want to know who created the creators of God, right?

The Greeks and Romans never questioned who created their gods. I don't intend to either.

Originally Posted by johnlocke

And that is a logical impossibility. If one is to imply that causality requires both cause and effect one cannot logically argue that the creation of God is excluded from the set of things included under the rules of causality. If God is exempted, based on principles of religious dogma, then one may argue (with equal logic) that giant flying pink elephants created the universe or created God.

Not if causality only applies to the physical universe.

Originally Posted by BiRdo

This question is quite pointless simply for the fact that in asking who created God, you would want to know who created the creators of God, right?

The Greeks and Romans never questioned who created their gods. I don't intend to either.

And the Greeks and Romans also believed that earthquakes and floods were divine wrath. Thus they concluded that prayer, rather than planning, would solve the problem.

Originally Posted by Heel31ok

Not if causality only applies to the physical universe.

Perhaps then you can explain how something that is outside the physical universe may, empirically, affect objects within the physical universe. In essence your argument relegates God to the status of spectator and not creator.

Originally Posted by johnlocke

Perhaps then you can explain how something that is outside the physical universe may, empirically, affect objects within the physical universe. In essence your argument relegates God to the status of spectator and not creator.

No not at all , He is not physical matter but If he in fact created matter then I would have to conclude he can affect it after creation. To create it naturally implies he can work it also.

Originally Posted by Heel31ok

No not at all , He is not physical matter but If he in fact created matter then I would have to conclude he can affect it after creation. To create it naturally implies he can work it also.

And once again your argument is entirely specious. Being outside the physical universe, by definition, means not included within the physical universe. You have also yet to explain how a non-physical "being" can create or manipulate matter in the physical universe.

BTW, I don't believe in ghosties, telekenesis, astral projection either so please present some (reproduceable) empirical evidence which supports your claim that an entity which has no physicality and which exists outside the physical universe can create a physical change in matter.

Originally Posted by johnlocke

And once again your argument is entirely specious. Being outside the physical universe, by definition, means not included within the physical universe. You have also yet to explain how a non-physical "being" can create or manipulate matter in the physical universe.

BTW, I don't believe in ghosties, telekenesis, astral projection either so please present some (reproduceable) empirical evidence which supports your claim that an entity which has no physicality and which exists outside the physical universe can create a physical change in matter.

Nice circular logic.Not being made up of physical properties prevent empirical investigation. But logically a being who can create matter can manipulate it. Now that does also show either it is true or not true but cannot be half true.


now what you believ does not have any bearing on how I answer in this regard.That is merely your perceived way of limiting my answer and giving you an out to dismiss it. But since I am outside that realm it does not affect me and I can still give my answer in any manner I choose. In the sense God is outside the universe means He is not limited by physical matter, it does not mean He cannot manifest Himself in a way a physical being can understand. Nor does it mean he cannot use that same creative power to manipulate matter.NO, by definition creator means He has free reign to do what ever he wishes.