Thread: The Atheist Leap of Faith

The Atheist Leap of Faith

Atheists, God, and Reason

By
Chuck Colson
Christian Post Guest Columnist
Fri, Jan. 04 2008 10:48 AM ET
In a recent issue of Scientific American, arch-Darwinist Richard Dawkins and physicist Lawrence Krauss discussed the relationship between science and religion.
Enlarge this Image




Dawkins, whose latest book, The God Delusion, is only one of a slew of recent books attacking religious beliefs, prefers an “in your face” approach. He once wrote that “if you meet somebody who claims not to believe in evolution, that person is ignorant, stupid, or insane.” He then added “or wicked, but I’d rather not consider that.”

In his discussion with Krauss, Dawkins stood by his statement, calling it “a simple and sober statement of fact.”

For his part, Krauss prefers to “reach out” to people and “understand where they are coming from”—not so that he might learn from them: Like Dawkins, he assumes that the people in question have little, if anything, to teach him. Rather, his goal is to “seduce” them into “understanding” and accepting scientific truths.

Thus Krauss says that “telling people . . . that their deepest beliefs are simply silly—even if they are” is counterproductive.

As you may have inferred from the “even if they are,” Krauss does not deny that religious belief is “irrational.” He simply thinks that religion is too deeply ingrained to be done away with. Better to help people “moderate” their beliefs and “cut out the most irrational and harmful aspects of religious fundamentalism.”

All of this begs the question: “Is faith, in particular, Christianity, irrational?”
Neither Dawkins nor Krauss comes close to proving this. Instead, Dawkins and Krauss simply assume that materialism—the idea that there is nothing besides matter—is true. Thus, what makes a faith “rational” is whether it can be proven empirically.

Dawkins and Krauss do not offer any arguments to justify their assumptions. They do not tell us why materialism is true: Instead, they ask you to take its truth as a given—in other words, on faith.

Speaking of faith, what Dawkins means by the word faith is, to put it politely, idiosyncratic. His technique, on display in the Scientific American piece, is to find the most extreme, fringe Christian positions and ascribe them to all Christians. He then cites these beliefs as proof that all Christian faith is irrational.

Reading their discussion or anything else associated with Dawkins and what is being called the “New Atheism,” you would not know that many of the greatest scientific discoveries were made by people of faith—not scientists who happened to be Christians, but people whose faith inspired and informed their scientific endeavors.

The work of physicists like Krauss would not be possible without Michael Faraday’s work in electromagnetism. Faraday was a devout Christian who believed nature to be intelligible because it was created and upheld by a God who made Himself known in both His Word and in nature.

Rodney Stark, the eminent sociologist, writes that Christianity rescued reason. Christians saw reason as a gift of a rational God, and it could, therefore, be used to explore the universe and world that God had made. This belief made modern science possible.

If you meet someone who says your Christian faith is irrational, ask him to explain the basis of his faith.

This commentary first aired on October 12, 2007, and is part five in a five-part series.

The Atheist Leap of Faith | Christianpost.com

I don't think evolution is *examinable*. Though it does look very inviting, if you think about it, it is merely a theory too. I doubt we have in your face evidence of the transformation cycles that we so assertively claim.

Obviously it is the more educated answer but we just don't know our origins. It is, however, more compelling to claim evolutionalism against theology as it talks about physical existence not ghosts or spirits and it appears to be fact-orientated but if you really scrutinize it to the letter, it is merely a theory. Take a subject, perhaps a chimp - cage it under appropriate conditions and then see if it's offsprings do change- we have all the time in the world to do it. Not behavioural changes, I mean physical changes - 5 life times (500 years) may give us clues, I bet public research centres will exist, and it is simply five generations for the answer. If not, throw out the concretization of evolution - and adhere to it's theoretical means.

Until of course we get live specimens of every known stage of human evolution (flesh and blood) it's case is pretty weak in any argument if they claim it to be 'examinable'.

Originally Posted by Desidude666

Until of course we get live specimens of every known stage of human evolution (flesh and blood) it's case is pretty weak in any argument if they claim it to be 'examinable'.

Is my paraphrasing your point by saying "Evolution happens too slowly to examine" oversimplfying it too much?

Originally Posted by conservative

The Atheist Leap of Faith
Atheists, God, and Reason If you meet someone who says your Christian faith is irrational, ask him to explain the basis of his faith.

It all seems clear and simple to me Con......there is room for scientific discovery and faith to coexist and help mankind the way true faith will give you contentedness and science will give us understanding and technological advancements.

It seems to me that anytime we adhere to the bible as 100% literal truth, trouble is soon to come. If we try to recruit people into our spirituality without really knowing if they want it, more trouble.....and lastly if you're not open the the word of God coming to you in new ways, especially in times like now, you might completely miss the second coming if that happens...as one example.

I believe in God, and I believe evolution happens, no need to fight. God has made it so these things coexist. And he apparently wants it that way.

Originally Posted by Goldwater

It all seems clear and simple to me Con......there is room for scientific discovery and faith to coexist and help mankind the way true faith will give you contentedness and science will give us understanding and technological advancements.

I agree for the most part.

It seems to me that anytime we adhere to the bible as 100% literal truth, trouble is soon to come. If we try to recruit people into our spirituality without really knowing if they want it, more trouble.....and lastly if you're not open the the word of God coming to you in new ways, especially in times like now, you might completely miss the second coming if that happens...as one example.

You are correct that the word of God speaks in new ways evertime it is approached...but I disagree that literal interpretation always leads to trouble. The word of God taken in it's entirety speaks of love and redemption from start to finish. Two ways man gets off track with the word, first they try to build a total belief system out of a portion of the scripture ignoring the other portions thus having an imbalanced and sometimes corrupt faith, and secondly, man is in his heart a corrupt creature and is bound to fail when presented with opportunities.

I believe in God, and I believe evolution happens, no need to fight. God has made it so these things coexist. And he apparently wants it that way.

As I have stated many times before on this site...evolution does occur...it is evindenciary. The problem comes in with the extrapolations of micro-evolutionary evidence into a macro-evolutionary world view for which there is no evidence. You say there is no reason to fight...and yet that is exactly what those who are anti-ID do on a daily basis all across this country. Evolution, as taught in public schools, is an unproven theory....and in fact many textbooks used have clearly false content within still being taught as truth to young people. This is why people still fight over this subject.