Thread: Definitive Proof That God Exists GG All Atheists

Power to Change » Does God Exist?

Very intelluctual battle between these engineers and PhD guys that proved God exists using thermodynamics, other scientific theories, newtons laws, I'm not going to spoil it.

Early Merry Christmas!

Originally Posted by politicianoftheworld

http://powertochange.com/questions/qna7

Very intelluctual battle between these engineers and PhD guys that proved God exists using thermodynamics, other scientific theories, newtons laws, I'm not going to spoil it.

Early Merry Christmas!

As I pointed out in a recent thread- even if we do some day recognize
a mind at the core of how things work it wont be our God, the one in our
holy books who tells us what to eat, and who we can screw.

If we ever do find God it will mean the end of current religions.

We haven't got a better explanation for the start of the universe - therefore God did it. People used to say that about lightning.

God is the sun, the sun exists, any other questions?

:P

Originally Posted by politicianoftheworld

Power to Change » Does God Exist?

Very intelluctual battle between these engineers and PhD guys that proved God exists using thermodynamics, other scientific theories, newtons laws, I'm not going to spoil it.

Early Merry Christmas!

hey what do you know, "proof" that god exists, coming from an "article" on a christian website.

gee, i never saw THAT coming.

Originally Posted by bla bla

As I pointed out in a recent thread- even if we do some day recognize
a mind at the core of how things work it wont be our God, the one in our
holy books who tells us what to eat, and who we can screw.

If we ever do find God it will mean the end of current religions.

I could agree with that

Argument #1: God Is the Best Explanation for the Beginning of the Universe
Premise 1) Whatever begins to exist must have a cause.
Premise 2) The universe began to exist.
Conclusion: Therefore the universe has a cause

This argument is called the cosmological argument, and is fallacious. It bases its justification on the assumption that things that exist have a cause - you cannot prove this to be true, just as we cannot disprove it.

Argument #2: If the Big Bang was merely a chance happening it is virtually impossible that all the values of all of these forces would have been exactly right to ensure the survival of the universe and to allow life.

It is not impossible - simply the chances of it happening are infinitesimal. It also makes the assumption that the events that led to the present state of our universe are isolate - it does not factor in possible correlative and causative relationships between the events.

They also state that the universe should be in a state of zero order due to the second law of thermodynamics.
First, prove to me that the universe is in a state of order.
Secondly, demonstrate that the so called "laws" of thermodynamics are infallible, as we have only seen this law in action within observed space. Also, you cannot discount the possibility that the laws of motion and thermodynamics have a causative relationship with the ordering of the universe.

To top off the fallacy, they make a momentous leap of faith in the conclusions that 1) The universe's cause is an omniscient, omnipotent being and 2) It is the Judeo Christian God.

I've always said that Christian Science was an oxymoron, and this is the icing on the cake. :laughing:

Originally Posted by Ausinus

This argument is called the cosmological argument, and is fallacious. It bases its justification on the assumption that things that exist have a cause - you cannot prove this to be true, just as we cannot disprove it.

Well look at that!

I am not the only one saying this.

He is right, the assumption that things that exist must have a cause is an assumption. It is called "causality" or the law of cause and effect and it is the basis of all empirical science.

The assumptions that we live by are not so far apart. Science and religion do not conflict each other. We justs have to recognize our own assumptions and see the limitations they impose on us.

Originally Posted by lakeman

Well look at that!

I am not the only one saying this.

He is right, the assumption that things that exist must have a cause is an assumption. It is called "causality" or the law of cause and effect and it is the basis of all empirical science.

The basis of cosmology is that something existed to cradle this universe.

There's no basis whatsoever for the assumption that this universe was created by an intelligent act of will.

The presence of creationists pretty much invalidates the idea that intelligence was required to create this universe. No intelligent deity would want to create anything as morbidly ignorant as those people, it's certain she'd rather spend more time making dust bunnies.

Originally Posted by lakeman

The assumptions that we live by are not so far apart. Science and religion do not conflict each other.

Yes, they do. One represents the desire to discard the false, the other is the embracing devotion to the false. Look at the lies you have to post to wiggle out of the falsities and inconsisties in the Bible, if you need examples.

Originally Posted by politicianoftheworld

Power to Change » Does God Exist?

Very intelluctual battle between these engineers and PhD guys that proved God exists using thermodynamics, other scientific theories, newtons laws, I'm not going to spoil it.

Early Merry Christmas!

I'm a Christian and believe that there is evidence that God exists. But, that said, it is impossible to prove it in the laboratory sense. But, hey, discussion is what this is all about...