Thread: Is God so cruel to allow animal birth to souls?

Originally Posted by dattaswami

In Islam and Christianity there is no rebirth for the soul. The soul gets human birth only once. After this human birth the soul will either go to the Lord or will go to the hell permanently. Only one Lord created this entire universe. Therefore the policy should be the same for all the souls in this universe. There is only one Lord. All the souls are equal to Him. Can you deny this? If you don’t agree with this theory, you can follow your own faith. But your faith is not important. The truth is important. What ever is true, that alone happens and not as per your faith. If you agree with this policy I can correlate all the religions.

If you can correlate all the religions in a better way, I will also agree with you. If you are not caring for the correlation and follow your faith only, there is nothing for me to preach you. My correlation of all the religions is like this : In Gita two paths are explained. In the first path one goes to Brahmaloka without returning back. In the other path one returns back to this earth and falls in the cycle of births and deaths which is the wheel of Samsara. In all the religions there are only two paths. Reaching Brahmaloka is reaching the Lord. Falling in the cycle animals and births is going to the hell permanently. The soul which, has fallen in this hell will never get the human rebirth in which there is facility of trying to reach Brahmaloka. Not getting such a spiritual human rebirth is the absence of rebirth.

The soul which, goes to Brahmaloka will never get the rebirth of animals and birds and in such sense this soul also has no rebirth. But one point is to be understood carefully. The birth of animal, bird, worm etc., does not mean the actual animal or bird or worm etc., There are several human beings who live like animals, birds and worms. Such human births are also the births of animals, birds, worms etc., We are seeing such human beings in majority on this earth. They are immersed in the worldly bonds like money, children etc., They cannot cut their blind love to these worldly bonds. Even if they put some spiritual effort, it is incomplete because of the attachment with these bonds.

Such souls when they go to the upper worlds are also involved in such bonds in the upper worlds also. They can never attain Brahmaloka by preaching any amount of divine knowledge to them. But if they are not preached they will blame the Lord during the enquiry posing that they might have attained Brahmaloka, had they received the divine knowledge. The Lord preaches them also only to save himself from such blame and not to save them. Therefore if you are having all the facilities and also interest in the spiritual line this is the best birth for you and this is the only chance for you. If you waste this human birth you are falling into the births of animals etc., You are not given such chance again.

Islam and Christianity say that the soul has to wait for the final enquiry which, is to be done at the end of this world. This human body (Pindanda) is stated as the world (Brahmanda). The human body is a mini world containing the same components. Therefore the death of this human body can be treated as the end of this world from the point of the soul. You can also treat the day as birth and night as death. Veda says that the deep sleep is equal to death (Naviduhu Sati Sampatsyama Iti). Gita also says the same (Prabhavantyaharagame). Therefore the feelings (Samskaras) of previous births mean only the feelings of yesterday.

If you are on the spiritual line and if you are making sincere spiritual effort to cut these worldly bonds and to strengthen the bond with the Lord, your lifetime can be extended by the Lord. You will cross the day of your death by the grace of the Lord, which is a rebirth. Such extension of life will help you really in the spiritual effort if you are given a human rebirth there will be lot of gap since you have to stay in the womb of your mother and you have to cross the childhood. Such long gap will give a serious break in your spiritual effort.

From this point of view also there is no human rebirth. If one cannot attain the Brahmaloka in this human birth itself by getting the extension of life, can such a soul get Brahmaloka in the next human birth after such a long gap? Gita also says that the soul is taking birth and death constantly during the day and night (Athachainam Nitya Jatam). Like this all the three religions can be correlated and only one theory is evolved.

It is not Brahmalok but Chandralok - I think you need to read it yourself not hear someone preach. And Brahmalok is the highest ranking lok in our little universe - that means if you do go there, chances are if you'd drop due to your sins, you'd drop to another abode - not Earth. This is said to be the worse form of place possible as existence here is short, temporary and said to be meaningless.

The monotheist faith do believe in personality retention but then, if yoiu believe in judgment, wouldn't you have a personality after death? How else wuold you be judged? Suppose you were a rabbit at one point of time and then, you become a human being - do you gain a personality or due you gain it? If decisions are made in the brain, how can the soul be in the heart? Gita states the soul being one thousand times smaller than a tip of a hair, hence it's indestructablity (yes, hinduism talked about atoms way before modern science, about 5000 years ago). But if the brain makes decisions, how can you make it from the heart?! Shouldn't it be in the brain instead? These are some of the things you as an evangelist need to prepare yourself for - I mean you'ev hardly convinced me with your knowledge, all you've done is copied and pasted articles. People won't give you time, let alone money mate.

Originally Posted by Desidude666

It is not Brahmalok but Chandralok - I think you need to read it yourself not hear s........hings you as an evangelist need to prepare yourself for - I mean you'ev hardly convinced me with your knowledge, all you've done is copied and pasted articles. People won't give you time, let alone money mate.

Monoism

Some people view the human incarnation as God in-toto. When the electricity enters the wire it pervades all over the wire. Wherever you touch the wire you will experience the electricity. The Veda says “Antar Bahischa Tat Sarvam…”, which means that God pervaded all over the human body and is present inside as well as outside the human body of the human incarnation. This view is called as monoism (Advaita) of Shankara.



This exactly coincides with the statement of Jesus “I and My Father are one and the same”. The human incarnation is convenient for the sake of human beings. The vision, touch, conversation and co-living are quite possible with the human incarnation. The human body is exactly the similar medium in which the soul of a human being also exists. For any transaction or interaction, a common medium is the best.


Trying to see God in the medium of an energetic form is totally unnecessary and is wastage of time and effort. A lot of severe penance has to be done for getting such a divine vision. All you are doing is seeing the same God in another medium called as energy. Is it not wastage of time and effort to try to see a person in a silk shirt, when the same person is appearing before you in a cotton shirt? The person is important and not the shirt. It is like catching a small rat after digging a big hill.

Some people try to imagine God embedded in the pure awareness, which is the finest form of energy. Such form of energy is very very subtle and can be perceived only by imagination. The pure awareness is like the costliest shirt; but it is still only a shirt. Therefore, the time and effort you have concentrated on the meditation to perceive God in this costliest shirt through your mind is the climax of wastage of your time and effort. The penance to see the energetic form and the meditation to imagine God in pure awareness are both unnecessary efforts because you can see the same God in the human body of the human incarnation. Moreover, the human body is very very clear for vision [everyone can see it without difficulty]. The energetic form cannot be seen by the naked eyes. Only by a special energy granted by the Lord, can the eyes see this energetic form.



The pure awareness can only be imagined by the internal eye, which is the mind. Moreover, touch is not possible in the case of the forms of energy or awareness. Conversation with the form of pure awareness is very much subtle and unclear. The conversation with the energetic form can take place but that is also limited to just a few seconds. The energetic form is highly unstable and is subject to diffusion. The entropy of the energetic form is very low and the spontaneity is towards the increase in entropy. Therefore, a long conversation is not possible with energetic forms. The energetic form appears for a few seconds, grants the boons for the penance of the devotee and disappears immediately by the process of diffusion. Such energetic form is not at all convenient for co-living [living with God].



If you see a human incarnation like Lord Krishna, the devotees could see the Lord for a long time. They could embrace Him for a long time. They could talk with Him for any length of time till their doubts were cleared. They could even hear the sweet songs from the mouth of the Lord. They lived with the Lord closely for years together. Such fortune is unimaginable and thus the human form of God is the best. Only very very few fortunate devotees can recognize God in human form and receive all the benefits fully. Some devotees doubt the Lord in human form due to over logic and loose the golden chance. Therefore, a human being can approach God completely only through the human form. This is stated by Jesus “One can reach My Father only through Me”. Thus very fortunate devotees believe the monoism of the wire and the electricity and get the complete benefit.

Originally Posted by dattaswami

) Doing good things is different and enjoying the results of good deeds is different. One can prepare sweets continuously but one cannot eat sweets continuously. The result of good deed is happiness. Continuous happiness will bore anybody like eating sweets continuously. Without good purpose Lord never created anything. The whole creation of the Lord originally was very good because anything was created for a purpose and for the happiness of all the living beings only. The bad was created by the Lord only to give some breaks now and then in continuous happiness.

The Lord also comes down in human form bored by the continuous bliss. Veda says that He enjoys both the truth and false (Satcha Tyatcha Abhavat). Gita also says that the Lord created Sattvam (Good qualities) and also Rajas and Tamas (Bad Qualities). Whether the bad is created in the beginning or it is created after some time, that point does not matter. You can say that God has created the bad in the beginning assuming the boring in the continuous pleasure, or you can say that God has created bad when the people are bored. There is no difference between these two statements because God is beyond time.

God created good and bad qualities as said in Gita (Yechaiva Sattvikaa Bhavaah Rajasaah Taamasaascha Ye). The Lord is beyond good and bad as said in Gita (Gunaateethah Sa Utchyate). He is the creator of day and night, summer and winter etc; but the human being is not beyond qualities because He is made of the very qualities, good or bad. The Lord when comes in human form or remains as Eeswara, is like a person who is wearing white shirt or black shirt but the soul is the very black or white shirt as said in Gita (Naanyam Gunebhyah Kartaaram). Therefore the Lord is untouched by the good or bad qualities. But the individual human being is like the cotton shirt, which is colored and it is very difficult to remove the color from the cotton threads. To kill an innocent beautiful deer is the greatest sin and the birth of the tiger itself is the result of the soul’s bad deeds in the past.

Just like the color and the cotton thread cannot be separated the cruel nature of the soul in the tiger is inherent and inseparable. Therefore it looks for you as if it is a natural thing when it kills the deer. You cannot say that a carnivorous person who kills and eats the human beings is justified because you are affected. You can understand the pain of the deer when you are born as a deer. The deer cannot argue like a human being. But because of that it should not have a different justice. One person may be unable to employ an advocate but the judge will do the justice. A tiger will be doing such sins continuously which will increase its cruelty. As the cruelty increases, the cruel deeds become more and more. The quality leads to action and the action again results in quality. This is the vicious circle in which the soul is caught, that is the end of the story and there is no liberation for such soul.

You missed the point slightly. If doing evil is bad, and it determines your fate, then even the animals are in serious trouble. Is it evil for the wolf to eat the rabbit? One lives, the other dies from the actions of the stronger. Or is it not considered evil because the wolf is hungry? And man who kills the wolf to protect his livestock... is he evil? Or is the act of protection considered doing good?

You see, every philosphy and religion, regardless of origin, has it's fundamental flaws. Most people pick on Christianity, but it's not the only religion where issues of what's moral versus what's wrong are confusing, mixed and sometimes contradicting.

There are some Buddhists who revere all life, to even kill a bug is considered bad karma. If their home becomes infested, they live with the bugs. To kill them with poison is a terrible act of murder. Yet, one of those bugs introduce bacteria on standing food and it's not noticed, that bacteria causes gastrenteritis and kills the person. So the bug has poisoned the human, instead. Then does that bug suffer the bad karma of murder?

That may sound silly to some, but to a buddhist (I forget the name of the sect that is very strict about that), it's not.

We're given the power to distinguish right from wrong, and unfortunately, people add too many definitions, too many views. People have written thousands upon thousands of laws, religion based or not, based on defining right and wrong for 'their' people. God doesn't discriminate however, but we do.

So what is right for us? Eating a burger is acceptance in the death of a cow. A person dies, then it's wrong to make a peopleburger?

What I am trying to say is the equality we put into our own sense of morals is no more right than the words we try and put into God's mouth. It's no more right than the meaning we try and put into God's actions, or even the lack of God's actions. If we try and live by second guessing God, then we aren't living at all according to His design. We are given free will, and that is also the freedom to choose wrong just as much as we can choose right. Blur the line with too much reasoning, and we are in far more in danger of a terrible outcome in our afterlife than the wolf will ever be. People will be doing their best to do the right thing within their laws and rules, where in the eyes of God, it's a terrible sin.