Thread: Question to people about Islam:

Here is the creation story of Islam:
“When God intended to create Adam in order to establish 'a vicegerent on earth,' angels protested, saying, 'Will You put there a being who will work mischief on the earth and shed blood, while we sing Your glories and exalt Your utter holiness?' God did not deny these allegations against man, but replied, 'I know what you do not know.' He then brought a competition in knowledge between the angels and Adam, asking the former to “name things”. When the angels could not do so, Adam could. This demonstrated that Adam possess the capacity for creative ability that the angels lacked, whereupon God asked all the angels to prostrate themselves before him to honor him. All angels so acknowledged Adam's superiority, except Iblis, who was one of the Jinn, who disobeyed G-d by refusing to honor Adam, and later became known as Satan.” (2:30, 18:50)


If you analyze this, we are here because we have the creative capacity that angels lack. The only thing angels can do is worship G-d. Therefore, human's are individualistic, and are by their nature, creative and independent.


Thus, the society created ideally by this creation story is one that nurtures these aspects in its people.


Democracy works if people want it to - if they are rational, creative, independent....


Why shouldn't democracy ideaologically work with Islam?

Sure it can work. There is no reason it can't. But changing the way a country is run is not that easy, especially if it's run with the power of religion.

How long did some of the monarchs of Europe last? A really really long time. Why did the people allow them? one of many reasons is the "Divine Right", they ruled with God's blessing.

The answer to changing a government is not from another countries direct involvement (especially if that country is a different relligion). Let them grow and learn for themselfs. If you teach them then they will realise it can be so much better. Let them overthrow the government themselfs

I don't really understand your question. Why can't democracy work with Islam? Of course it can. Islam means peace. The fundemental teachings of Islam are actually very good, Islam does not teach hatred or evil amoungst it's people. The problem with Islam dates back a very long time ago, right back to after Muhammad's death. I don't know whether you are familiar with Islamic history? Let me know if you're not, i can explain.

Presuming you are familiar, the actual problem is that people use Islam as an excuse to breathe corruption, evil and hatred. Islam is heavily exploited as a reason to go to war. Infact, people use Jihad when it should never be used.

Islam can work in Islam; in previous times it has. However, the Islam that people know today is actually very different to the true meaning of Islam, because it has been so exploited as a reason for corruption.

Islam as a personal belief is compatible with democracy - Islam as a system of legislation is not. Reason being that Islam does not have the secular tradition that the west does, nor does it have a concept of separation of religion and state.

Originally Posted by Ausinus

Islam as a personal belief is compatible with democracy - Islam as a system of legislation is not. Reason being that Islam does not have the secular tradition that the west does, nor does it have a concept of separation of religion and state.

So is there really any point in trying to bring democracy to Iraq? I'd say there isn't based on what you said here, which I really agree with by the way.

Originally Posted by Crusader

So is there really any point in trying to bring democracy to Iraq? I'd say there isn't based on what you said here, which I really agree with by the way.

No, there is no point. But not for that reason - the reason is that the cultural and religious divisions are too rife to form an effective unified government.

the theory is that we are supposed to introduce the tradition of democracy into their midst.

Originally Posted by The_Bear

the theory is that we are supposed to introduce the tradition of democracy into their midst.

But when tradition has such a strong grasp on society, what can you do? The culture and democracy are totally contradicting.

hence it being 'hard work'.
Democracy is not adverse to Islam. IT is adverse to the tradition that has spawned in Arabia.

Originally Posted by The_Bear

hence it being 'hard work'.
Democracy is not adverse to Islam. IT is adverse to the tradition that has spawned in Arabia.

Yeah, that's what I meant. I do realize that all of Middle East is not Muslim.