Why Christianity conerns me. - Page 3

caffeine · 08-08-2008, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberdan

In most Churches, in order to be a Pastor or Priest, one must have a Bachlor's Degree in business. Lutherans are a good example of such.

This is not the case in any Anglican confession, nor in the Catholic Church, nor in any mainstream Orthodox Church - and it's obviously irrelevant to your more hippy brand of Christian. I don't know if it's true of any other Churches; but 'most' is clearly a colossal distortion of the truth. Most Churches do not require a Bachelor's Degree in business - and whilst I have no figures, I'd be willing to hazard that an overwhelming majority do not.

Christopher · 08-08-2008, 09:16 AM

Couple of scriptures; while these are discussing a particular group of people at the time, I think they apply to anyone who does such. People who do this will not get a “free pass” into heaven.
Isa. 29: 13

Quote:

13 ¶ Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heartfarfromme, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

Matt. 15: 8

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8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me their lips; but their heart isfarfromme.

sid2112 · 08-08-2008, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

The reason Christian dogma concerns me, or should i say, one of the big reasons, is that it seems to give evil people a free pass. To me, it seems to say that no matter how cruel you are to people, if you follow Jesus Christ and beleive he was our saviour, then it does not matter how mean you are. Does that seem right? Not to me it doesnt.

It's not right. It's really a matter of perception. The truth is God wants us to be as close to perfectly good as we can be. However he also understands that we aren't always going to live up to that. So he sent his boy down to pay the tab. Believe in Christ or not, that was a pretty awesome thing to do. My issues with Christianity isn't Dogma, which in comparison with alot of others out there is pretty well put together (no, it's not perfect). My issue is that the people who claim to be Christians never bother to learn the principles behind it and fail to make REAL efforts to change themselves.
I'm not going to push my faith on you, it's a personal thing between me and my God. I would urge you to remember that the vast silent Christians out there (like me) do try for something better.

Lanie · 08-08-2008, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

The reason Christian dogma concerns me, or should i say, one of the big reasons, is that it seems to give evil people a free pass. To me, it seems to say that no matter how cruel you are to people, if you follow Jesus Christ and beleive he was our saviour, then it does not matter how mean you are. Does that seem right? Not to me it doesnt.

One reason why Catholics believe in Purguatory. A person doesn't get a free pass then.

Lanie · 08-08-2008, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oftencold

Your interpretation of mainstream Christianity is flawed. If one is a Christian, one should should not wish to hurt without cause, and any cause should be compelling.

The nature of a Christian should be such that they strive to avoid doing evil.

I should mention that compelling causes to hurt turn up in unexpected places. An example I'm found of is splinting someone's broken bone on the beach and toting them back to town.

(I live in bear country, leaving the injured individual there while I nip back to town for help would be a kindly act only to the bruins.)

I have it on good authority that the patient would find this process of splinting and transport unpleasant.

Cruelty is forbidden to the Christian, though we often fail to live up to our own standards. (the Standard is Perfection, so I'm sure you can see the problem.)

As to the free pass, are you aware that we are taught to think of anger at another human being as a sin comparable to murder? (Under the Writ, I'm no better that a Death Row inmate.)

This is the mainstream version, not a fringe element.

In the matter of whether or not a person is a Christian, well, we are taught that a "tree is known by its fruit." So, if love of God and man (the Greatest Commandments,) are the fruit we should be bearing, it does not look good for people who are routinely cruel and hateful.

On the Spiritual level, one would have to believe that God is not terribly bright in order for the ruse of one merely claiming salvation without taking the Doctrine to heart to work.

Since He got the whole sub-atomic bit worked out I choose to forgo the "God is not too clever" school of thought.

On the Mundane level, liars, charlatans, and cheats will attache themselves to anything that is accepted by large numbers of people. This is true for Christianity, political movements, sports, commerce and art.

In each case, it is vitally important not to mistake the parasites for the host, no?

I think I agree with most of that, except the "anger is murder" part. Even Jesus got angry. The real concern is how that anger is handled.

sid2112 · 08-08-2008, 02:06 PM

You hit the nail on the head Lanie. It's not being perfect, it's the attempt that counts.

mjollnir · 08-08-2008, 02:46 PM

The basic premise is that we are born flawed....with the scar of ultimate sin over us. I don't accept that...no way, no how. I do not believe in sin. What is described as sin is human nature....trying to thwart human nature to have control over people.. It is a very domineering religion. That is because of the culture it came from. However, the so called sins are not bad in and of themselves. Our deeds should define who we are. It is sad that such a forgiving and mercyful god would deny someone access to his hall, no matter how they live their life, if they do not kneel down and fear HIM. How mercyful is that?

I kneel to no man and I TRULY do not kneel before my gods. I stand proud that those that we consider our gods are the beginning of the line of my folk. We don't fear them, we honor them. We give them gifts and we gets gifts in return from them. Each one has their own attribute and are called upon as life dictates. How we live out lives is truly more important than kneeling before our gods. What we give, we get back....good or bad. In the end, our "life in the hereafter" is how we are remembered by those who come after us. Ancestor worship is very prominent.

I believe that my way of life is more logical for a human being. Christianity puts unrealistic demands on human beings. That's my opinion. Whatever you want to believe is cool with me. Just don't shove it down my throat or tell me that I am worshipping false gods. I have been told that before on here.

Oftencold · 08-08-2008, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christopher

Couple of scriptures; while these are discussing a particular group of people at the time, I think they apply to anyone who does such. People who do this will not get a “free pass” into heaven.
Isa. 29: 13

Matt. 15: 8

This one also addresses the "free pass issue," and in a manner that I've found to be "ominous":

Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap" (Galatians 6:7)

sid2112 · 08-08-2008, 04:13 PM

Matrix Math

escription and pseudo-inverse of singular matrix - I would never force my faith on you! I don't mean that in a bad way. It's just my personal philosophy to mind my own business. The rules governing Christians are rules I try to follow in my life. They are pretty good guidlines to civilized behavior. The cool part about Christ is that even when I screw up, God will forgive me. Because justice was paid in full through Christ. These are my beliefs. I don't pretend to give them as facts because to be honest, I was not at Calgary that day. But belief in a thing is not the same as knowing a thing. The story of the crucifixion is a beautiful one. The IDEA that the burden of all of our wrongs were removed through self-sacrifice and uninhibited love is a great one. Thats the lesson I took from it. And thats why I'm a Christian despite my scientific outlook on life.

Heel31ok · 08-15-2008, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberdan

1. We can't be Christ like. Nobody can, only Christ himself.
2. Agreed.

Understand, not all so called Christians think and believe the same. Some sects have mutilated the Bible by removing books from it, and offering updated translations where the wording changes the meaning of the passages.

In most Churches, in order to be a Pastor or Priest, one must have a Bachlor's Degree in business. Lutherans are a good example of such. Instead of running the faith, they run the business of faith, which means the Church who do this, in the end, only want money, and through association, have money as their new god and master, using Christ's cloak to mass the more popular coin.

There are also those who are simply "Christians", who read the King James Version of the Bible (The 1611 translation from Hebrew and Latin texts), are Baptised (Denomination doesn't matter, only 1 Baptism counts. Do it 300 times, only needed the 1st one and that will never change), and follow Christ and God in their hearts. I am one of these, myself. I listen to nobody over how I should feel about God and Christ, I listen only to my heart. That is enough for any man, really.

The organized Christians, I a concerned for them as well. They do many good things, but it is not good deeds that make a difference. It's what's in your heart.

false ,we can be Christ like which was why he came to give us that example.

Good deeds are not for the purpose of salvation.But they do serve to help others and when it comes down to it people are the heart of God and doing good to them does make a difference, to them. we are blessed to be a blessing , we are profited to give to others.we are the conduit of God and he wants blessings and good works toward others to flow through us. the more we let flow the more we will have to let flow.