Latherty

I like to think these people would do these things without the fear of eternal damnation to drive them. In fact, I think if you asked them, they would agree.

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Latherty

That is something many people forget....

Oftencold

I know these people. They don't seem to think much about damnation. They do think a lot about love though.

Latherty

Would they love any less if they hadn't read a particular book? I don't think so. there are people like that in every culture.

lakeman

If we took the common sense approach to first make sure that we were comparing Christians to non-Christians and then sampled their actions without bias I am confident that the Christians would show themselves, on average, to be the kind of people that you would want as neighbors.

That being said, that kind of analysis is so difficult that no one really can make a persuasive case either way.

But setting aside the difficulties of measurement if we look at it phiosphically the Christians, by definition, will be acting like followers of Christ or they would not be Christians. Does Christ ask them to follow Him by being moral and reaching for a higher standard or to do evil?

That is not a just government, nor is property secure under it, where the property which a man has in his personal safety and personal liberty, is violated by arbitrary seizures of one class of citizens for the service of the rest.
-James Madison-

Latherty

If you ask the Christian right, its to do evil....

But fortunately they do not represent most Christians - like asking AQ for guidance on Islam

lakeman

Ha that's funny.

That is not a just government, nor is property secure under it, where the property which a man has in his personal safety and personal liberty, is violated by arbitrary seizures of one class of citizens for the service of the rest.
-James Madison-

Oftencold

Frankly, without Cristian training, they would be different people, and so would I.

Religions have arisen the preach cruelty and barbarity, and unlike Christianity, careful study of the writs of those faiths have led to increases in their virulence. I use Traditionalist Islam as an example. Careful study of the Koran will incite the Muhammadan to greater violence and less compassion for the Infidel.

Are you really familiar with Traditional Christianity? It teaches one to suppress, master or alter a great deal of natural human urges. Urges such as greed, violence, and the natural tendency to assume oneself to be superior to one's fellows.

We are taught that even to hate is tantamount to murder, covetousness akin to theft. We are commanded for forgive even our killers.

A common misconception is that ordinary Christians do good works to buy the favor of God. This is untrue. We are taught that Salvation is a gift, simply a gift. We do good works as a return gift, or out of affection for Man and God.

Oh, Love. We have a lot to say about it. For the more serious of us, it is an action, or series of actions more than an emotion. For the devout Christian, there is something ruthless about love.

So yes, the Book changes us, though more correctly, the Concepts change us.

And it might interest you, or it might not to know, that my Christianity motivates my engagement with politics. Though I think that many here will not believe me, my desire to change leftist thinking arises largely out of compassion.

Latherty

Urrgh! i guess that means an intellectual debate is off the table....

you know, there are a number of evil Christians and evils Muslims, and a number of great Christian and great Muslims.

There are great Buddhists and Wiccans, too.

What makes these people great is their ability to take care of their fellow man. They are supported by a religious context, not manufactured by it.

Zaragrunudgeyon

Have you ever really known a Christian?, personally?