Libre

I sure do a great job of pointing it out. It means a lot to me for you to finally recognize that publicly.

Steve

THE OBAMA ENERGY PLAN

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nonsqtr

Okay. I'll give him a chance. He's askin' intelligent question, so that's good. That's more than I get out of most of these clowns....

Yeah, it's kinda funny, I've been doin' my own little 'personal survey' of the Neo-Con "belief tree", and I mean, it's not "homogeneous", right? Any "system of thought" like that - any "political philosophy", let's say - isn't an entire "terrain map" - it's more like, just a few stakes in the ground.

So, what happens is, your mind (the mind of "each individual") is left to fill in the picture of the "terrain" that might be around those stakes, and each person does that differently.

So, some Neo-Cons, might actually develop their position from a "might makes right" standpoint, you know, "American superiority", and all that.

Whereas others, might start from the "new and different kind of enemy" concept, and roll out the logic that way.....

But in both cases, they arrive at this "justification" of pre-emptive war!

See, so, I'm kinda interested in the "belief models" that undelie this thing, 'casue I mean, the whole thing I'm trying to get to, is "why is the Kool-Aid so effective"? It's like, why do people actually believe this drivel, like the kind of stuff they might hear on Faux "News" or somethin'?

I don't think it's 'cause people are "stupid" per se, I rather think it's more because there's some kind of "expectation of accuracy" from those in positions of power. You know, it's like, the concept of placing "trust" in your elected officials, right? It's that kinda thing. And I mean, Faux, is epecially bad that way, they just fill the airwaves with [u}whatever[/u], and they don't even seem to care whether it's the truth or not.

I remember during Katrina, hearing that idiot "Doctor" Michael Baden, telling people on live national television to ignore the CDC warnings and that it was okay to go wading around in the waist-deep water that was at the bottom of the MIssissippi three days earlier - know what I mean? That kinda crap is a menace to the People of the United States!!! Am I right? Of course I am!!! And I mean, you know, "oh, okay, the guy's a doctor, and he's on a national TV show, and they picked him as a 'subject matter expert', so maybe I oughta listen to what this guy has to say".... and I mean, no, the reason the guy's workin' at Faux in the first place, is 'cause he couldn't get a job anywhere else!!! He was stripped of his license to actually practice medicine, so he became a "forensic pathologist" instead, and now he's doing it "surreptitiously", by giving bad medical advice to people on live national television!!!

See what I mean? And it's like, people believe this crap, right?

"Oh yeah... duh.... gee Beavis, huh huh, see... PhD... huh huh....". I mean, sheesh, I got a Piled-Higher-and-Deeper too, but that has in no way diminished my intellectual capacity, know what I mean? I still know BS when I hear it, and I still know an idiot when I see one!

We must hang together, gentlemen, else we will surely hang separately.
http://www.groupof12.com

Libre

My stake in the ground is economics. America is saddled with a $70,000,000,000,000 debt which equates to $700K per family in the United States. We simply cannot afford more welfare or warfare. We are literally teetering on the point of no return and we need to decide whether we want to become a third world nation or not. We passed the last gas station 20 miles ago, we have 25 miles of gas in the tank, and the next gas station is 50 miles up the road no matter which fork we take. Isn't it a moot point to argue which way to veer at the fork?

Steve

THE OBAMA ENERGY PLAN

Migi e!

Obama, Hillary, & Mccain are running in primaries now, not the general. I'm sure substance will be coming forth during the debates between McCain & whoever.
I'm just afraid of what that substance will be.

"Saying "Stupid liberal" & Nancy Pelosi in the same sentence is redundent"

Libre

No matter that substance may be, I am sure it will smell bad.

Steve

THE OBAMA ENERGY PLAN

Bourne

Yup, you're a real master of the irrational. Enjoy your notoriety.

Libre

Yes, I easily master irrational people. Thanks for the continued recognition. This type of self-deprecation is really unlike you Bourne. I feel you have really grown.

Steve

THE OBAMA ENERGY PLAN

Bourne

You're just one laugh after another. Not a shred of substance but plenty of comedic entertainment.

nonsqtr

Yes, that's an important stake in my map, too. Here's kinda the "terrain" I'm gettin' on that one: our latest budget is about 3 tril. Our national debt, is 9 tril (4 of that added in Bushie's tenure). China, takes up a quarter of that, or about 1 tril. UK and EU "allies" and such are bigger trading partners, but the difference is, that China is actually sucking dollars out of the US economy by virtue of the trade deficit, which doesn't really apply ("much") to the others.

SO, how all this matters, is, that we're being TOLD, that our debt service as a fraction of GDP is "within an acceptable range". And, the numbers we hear in that regard, are in the 3-4% range, as distinct from some other large economies which are up in the 8% range. HOWEVER, this doesn't tell the whole story. What distinguishes the US from some of these other economies, is that the United States is a debtor nation. So, what that means is, that the interest charges on our credit card, are actually more than the monthly payments!!! Even if we make all our payments on time, our debt still keeps going up!!!

So, now, how do you correct this? Well, you can't magically wave your hands over it and make it go away. This problem we're in, is a result of long-standing policy, and it has a lot do to with the monetary policy that goes with the "trickle-down" piece. That, either has to be changed, or, some "other" adjustements need to be made to compensate for its effects.

And then, to further complicate the equation, we have this "globalism", thing, that almost no one understands. And I mean, I'm not the expert either, but I know enough to know, that its name, is exactly the opposite of what it really is! (You know, it's like the philosophy called "objectivism" - it has nothing to do with anything "objective", it's just a misnomer, a name that someone gave it 'cause they didn't understand what it was, and for whatever reason, the name stuck).

But yes, it's pretty obvious, that the "logic" around this open-borders thing, is very heavily tied up into the "economic globalism" piece, and therefore by extension, it ripples into concepts like "small business" here at home, and also "multi-national corporations" and the way you treat those types of business activities under US law.

'Cause right now, the way things work is, that when US companies move jobs overseas they get tax breaks, and when foreign companies open up manufacturing facilities and subsidiaries in the US they get tax breaks, and the only people who end up getting royally screwed are the small and medium sized business who are actually owned and operate fully in the United States!!! And I mean, that's gotta be completely unfair, yes? But even more important than that, is the idea that it's sucking the lifeblood ouf of the US domestic economy! And therefore by extension, quashing our competitiveness, and our innovation (which starts mostly in small business and academia, and the acadmia part isn't lookin' too good either 'cause of stupidity like No Child Left With A Dime).....

I mean, yeah - we got some serious problems. And you're very right, the whole thing begins and ends with the economy.

Which is why, I strongly believe, that we need a whole new economic "model".

And, which is why, I'm suddenly very interested in this guy Austan Goolsbee, he's probably Obama's "main" economic adviser.

Have you checked this guy out? Here, lemme see if I can give you some linkies... (maybe I'll even try to do the "fair and balanced thing", let's see).... Ah, here. Okay:

Austan Goolsbee

Austan Goolsbee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A Charismatic Economist Who Loved to Argue - New York Times

Yale Daily News - Goolsbee ’91 puts economics degree to use for Obama

Obama’s economic advisers « Louis Proyect: The Unrepentant Marxist ( )

We must hang together, gentlemen, else we will surely hang separately.
http://www.groupof12.com

Libre

Well, you usually notice that people who don't have a clue what's going on tend to laugh to hide that fact.

Uh huh, uh huh. You have proven that by citing sources like "Underwear With A Trapped Door News."

Steve

THE OBAMA ENERGY PLAN