Thread: Pope: "gay marriage is a threat to humanity"

Originally Posted by kingrat

I have already admitted that I fall short of the standard of christian love. What I can or cannot do has no bearing on what christian love requires -- that one denies one's self.

You're not making any sense. No. I presumed no such thing.

What I said is that homosexuality does not accrue to procreative element that is inherent in the human sex act. And it is this disregard for the procreative element that makes it morally defective.

What other sexual acts are done in complete disregard for the unitive or procreative aspect inherent in the act? Whatever you imagine, it is as morally defective as homosexuality. Understand?
Where did I post such a thing? Saying that the procreative aspect of a marriage is important does not mean it is the ONLY thing that is important.
Get your facts and logic straight for a change. We have been at this for quite some time now. You should, at least, know the correct rules of logic and argumentation by now.

Your ideas are totally at odds with christian ethics. I repeat -- christian ethics is not about specific acts which are moral or immoral. It is about the INTENT for which an action is taken in the first place.
Whatever their intent, we may safely say that procreation is not one of them, may we not?

You know nothing about me. I happen to come from a culture that is known for hospitality to strangers. We do so to a fault, it seems. No. Christian love, first and foremost, is an act of free will. Obviously, the question is irrelevant to the discussion.
That is not why I married my wife. I did not have to marry her to have a relationship with her. I married her because I wanted to live the rest of our lives as husband and wife and found a family with her.

Those are two very different things. Again, no one is saying they cannot choose to be involved with whoever they choose. Its just not a marriage when you choose to be in a relationship with the same sex -- for very logical reasons that I have already stated repeatedly.

Marriage is what it is. It is a choice people make. And this choice entails responsibilities the purpose of which is a higher good that is congruent to one's self, society and the law.

Its that simple. Then you see how absurd the whole thing is. A health professional will caution you about the health risks involved in such a behavior. And yet, you want to lend it with legal impetus -- against all logic.

What does that make you, eh? To surrender one's will to a higher power -- the same principle of ethics I have been saying over and over and over....

Have I said anything to the contrary? When you 'do what is asked (by god)', have 'willingness to sacrifice (for god)' and have 'faith enough to do as asked (by god)', what you are essentially doing is sacrificing your self for a higher power or greater good -- exactly what I have been saying.

When you indulge in homosexuality, you act according to your base inclinations, sexual preference, or whatever else you want to call it in disregard for natural law -- the law that the creator imbued in you. You are therefore, not doing his will, but yours.

Now you are demonstrating an obsessive preoccupation with me in a topic that is not about me. You are starting to creep me out.

You have been creeping me out since you began posting on this board and professing some great understanding of the Bible and christian love.

It would make sense that you would be creeped out by someone who exposes your nonsense for what it is by using the words of Christ to show you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

You don't get it and you won't get it as long as you refuse to love as Christ taught, as long as you dwell on some false religious tenet that you try to use to explain away your failings. You also continue to confuse sex with love. That is creepy.

Homosexuality is not about sex - homosexuals are not just attracted to the same gender partner because of sex. Love is more than sex.

Did you marry your partner just because you want to have sex?

Think about how juvenile it is to keep posting your nonsense about sex and self denial, as if you don't personally indulge yourself with regularity. As if you haven't had sex just to satisfy your needs and not for the purpose of procreation.

You don't know natural law, homosexuality has been a part of the species since time began. It is a part of natural law. God created homosexuals just as he created you. He doesn't make mistakes. They are his children.

And let me repeat for you, yet again, the words of Christ:

Matthew 22:36-40

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Not a thing about denying self - definitely includes loving self and loving others.

Originally Posted by kingrat

What? If a priest were tried, convicted and jailed, then due process was accorded him. You go to the next pedophile priest and accord him due process.

What the hell is your point, eh?

Did the catholic church spring any convicted priest from jail?

And what exactly is 'more due process', eh? By definition, something that is more or less than what due process requires is NOT due process.

What unbelievable nonsense!

Of course it's nonsense... that's the point of a sarcastic response. Need another duh? Can you show me any place I ever said that the Roman Catholic Church or its Priests shouldn't get a trial? Or maybe you want to say that I said it on the crashed forum, right? Things like the church discussing priests abusing kids and moving them to new parishes as a result is a matter of public record now. But any time its brought up you just stamp your foot, put your fingers in your ears, close your eyes, and yell out "due process!!".

Now you get it.

Thinking that all us military personnel are rapists is as biased as thinking all priests are pedophiles.

It took you long enough, though.

No. It took you long enough to read more than the first and last lines of my posts, if you actually thought I favored one criminal over another.

Sigh.

The news report said:

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - Pope Benedict said Monday that gay marriage was one of several threats to the traditional family that undermined "the future of humanity itself."

And what other threats do you think the pope means? Abortion, maybe? Perhaps couples choosing not to have kids when their situation is ideal for it? What do you think?

Would all the above, in fact, undermine the future of humanity itself if one considers the adverse effects of population decline?

Duh?

No. There is a tiny portion of gay people in relation to the world population... gay marriage is no more a cause of population decline than the people who simply choose to not have kids.

You cannot even comprehend what the pope was actually saying, even when it was already explained to you (complete with un population projections and news reports of population decline actually happening) -- and I'm retarded???

What unbelievable nonsense.

Actually, since we are discussing comprehension I said what you write is retarded, not that you are retarded. So yeah... in addition to taking some time to reread your posts, you better reread the post you are replying to in order to avoid embarassment.

Originally Posted by kingrat

Nope. I've done no such thing.

When you define conjugal love based on a sexual preference, are you not, in fact, confusing sex with love?????

Puh-leez. Spare me your idiotic proselytizing.



Is your position really that weak that you would resort to straw man arguments just to make yourself feel good?

Homosexuality, to use your own definition, IS A SEXUAL ORIENTATION. Is it not?

I have no doubt homosexuals can love beyond sexual appetites. What you need to confront is whether a homosexual preference could be considered a legal or moral imperative.



She is not only my partner. She is my WIFE, the word taking on a whole new level of meaning between us you couldn't possibly comprehend.

If sex is the only thing I want from her, I wouldn't have married her. No amount of sex could justify the commitment we have with one another -- TO FOUND A FAMILY AND TAKE ON THE RESPONSIBILITIES PERTINENT TO IT.



You don't know me. You put people inside your silly, pre-conceived boxes in your head and respond accordingly.

I do not force my wife to have sex. She makes sympto-thermal charts on herself and we time our sexual intercourse around these charts. We have planned the birth of our 2 children (5 years apart) using that method. And we first learned the details of this method during our pre-cana seminar.

And if, for some reason, our sexual intercourse brings about a pregnancy, we are fully aware of our moral obligations towards our unborn child and are prepared to fulfill them.



No. It is you who don't know natural law.

If you have the temerity to mention that here, the least you could do is google the word. You are making a fool of yourself.

And if all you can provide are rhetorics lifted from a pop-song to support your argument, then I'm afraid your argument doesn't have legs to stand on.

God certainly doesn't make mistakes. He made human beings and imbued them with human dignity. And I respect the human dignity in homosexuals, heterosexuals, criminals, the unborn and the wretched.

I do not, however, condone bad ACTS. I have an obligation to my children to raise them according to what is right. If social norms interfere in my duty to my children, then I would not hesitate to mention it in the public domain.



Not a thing about denying self?????

Everything about jesus is self-denial for the sake of love. He denied his divine nature. He forgave sins that the law and society at large could not forgive. He subjected himself to an unjust law and punishment. He told mankind what god's love is all about and demonstrated its extent on the cross.

How dare you suggest that your base inclinations demonstrates christian love. You know nothing of the words you speak of.

Homosexuality is not about sexual orientation. Homosexuality is who they are. Did you choose to have sex with the opposite sex, is that the orientation you decided on? If so, then I can understand your confusion. If you are attracted to and can love the opposite sex, if you didn't have to choose, if it was just how things were for you, then you are wrong to demand others live as you do and feel as you feel. Sex does not equal love and love doesn't need sex. These are all truths that you don't understand.

Jesus was about love - pure love, selfless love, love for the sake of love. Love of self, love of enemies, love of God.

He gave so that you would understand how deeply he loved you, not so that you would think yourself superior to others because you get off on self-denial. He doesn't expect you to beat yourself with a cat of nine tails or to wrap a chain around your leg till you bleed to prove how much you love him. He expects you to accept those who are different, to love the people you would rather outcast and mock.

Love thy god with thy whole heart and all that you are and second unto that, love your neighbor as yourself. - That is pretty clear - you keep missing it and that is a shame for both your soul and the people in your life.