Thread: Russia pulls out of Nato arms pact

Russia pulls out of Nato arms pact

President Vladimir Putin has withdrawn Russia from a key post-cold war international arms treaty, paving the way for the deployment of Russian forces closer to Europe.

The withdrawal of Russian participation in the Conventional Forces in Europe (CFE) treaty was signed into law today.

The United States, the European Union and Nato had urged Putin not to suspend the treaty, seen as a cornerstone of European security.

Russia says Nato members have not ratified an amended version of the pact and accuses it of flexing its muscles near Russia's borders.

Polls show that talking tough about Russia standing up to foreigners strikes a chord with millions of Russians who yearn for the return of the Soviet Union's once-mighty superpower status.

Putin has also been sparring with the US and EU over plans for a missile defence shield in Europe, and proposed independence for Serbia's Kosovo province.

Signed in 1990 and updated in 1999, the CFE treaty limits the number of battle tanks, heavy artillery, combat aircraft and attack helicopters deployed and stored between the Atlantic and Russia's Ural mountains.

It was originally negotiated among the then-22 member states of Nato and the Warsaw Pact, and Russia says it is outdated.

Moscow argues it has been used by an enlarged Nato to limit Russian military movements while Nato builds up forces close to Russia, in contravention of earlier agreements.

Interesting. What that move does is provide additional justification of the forward deployment of US ABM systems in Europe.

Or, since the French and Germans dislike us so much, now would be an excellent time to leave Europe and tell them to cover their own asses from now on.

Originally Posted by Freedom for All

Interesting. What that move does is provide additional justification of the forward deployment of US ABM systems in Europe.

Or, since the French and Germans dislike us so much, now would be an excellent time to leave Europe and tell them to cover their own asses from now on.

I agree with you. Even though France and Germany have contributed to the NATO effort in Afghanistan their participation is half-hearted and only because of their NATO obligations. Both have demonstrated a distaste for the US and for that reason should be left to their own defense.

As for Putin's sabre rattling, I wonder how Ukraine and the other republics will react to the suggestion of Russian troops on their soil. I also wonder how the sluggish Russian economy will be affected by moving military spending back towards cold war levels.

Originally Posted by Freedom for All

Interesting. What that move does is provide additional justification of the forward deployment of US ABM systems in Europe.

And what would that accomplish other than the further provocation of Russia?

Deploying the E European ABM system in the face of Russia's protests Has several positive effects.

It provides protection for our European allies against missiles coming out of S Asia, inparticular countries such as Iran, Pakistan or India.

It demonstrates a strenghtened resolve to fufill our NATO commitment to defend Europe.

It sends a clear message to Putin that regardless of his wishes, the US intends to defend Europe.

Originally Posted by Bourne

Deploying the E European ABM system in the face of Russia's protests Has several positive effects.

Feel free to try again in sharing them.

It provides protection for our European allies against missiles coming out of S Asia, inparticular countries such as Iran, Pakistan or India.

Why do sovereign nations need the U.S.A. to be their protector?

There's a deeper problem if missiles are firing out of Iran, Pakistan, or India. :whistling:

It demonstrates a strenghtened resolve to fufill our NATO commitment to defend Europe.

And whose interests does that serve? The interests of the U.S.A., Europe, and Russia are all hurt by the pointless belligerence and bullying coming out of Washington.

It sends a clear message to Putin that regardless of his wishes, the US intends to defend Europe.

'Defend' Europe from whom? The only reason Russia is expanding militarily is to prevent the United States from gaining further power as a potential threat in its own backyard.

Originally Posted by Defensor

And what would that accomplish other than the further provocation of Russia?

It would provide us with forward ABM positions for improved national defense?

Originally Posted by Defensor

Why do sovereign nations need the U.S.A. to be their protector?

Because even though they hate us, they cry when we mention pulling our troops out, because that would mean they'd have to pay for their own defense. Which would make their little socialist utopias go belly up.

Originally Posted by Defensor

And whose interests does that serve?

Ours. Why else would we want to do it?

Theirs. Because without us, the French would all be Germans and all the Germans would be speaking Russian by now.

Originally Posted by Defensor

The interests of the U.S.A., Europe, and Russia are all hurt by the pointless belligerence and bullying coming out of Washington.

Can't recall any pointless beligerance coming out of Washington regarding Russia. What did we do, tell that little KGB twerp to mind his own business, Poland and Ukraine are now sovereign nations we can work with as we and they agree to? There's something wrong with that?

Originally Posted by Defensor

'Defend' Europe from whom?

Russia. China. The Islamic terrorist nations.

It's also to have our presence already established if any of those Islamic terrorist nations do develop true ICBM capability and begin to threaten the United States directly. Its called "prudence".

Originally Posted by Defensor

The only reason Russia is expanding militarily is to prevent the United States from gaining further power as a potential threat in its own backyard.

You believe that, do you? Well, someone has to fulfill PT Barnums verdict. It was your minute to shine, I guess.

Russia may just look at prominence. I personally think Nato should be dismantled after the Cold War, especially since the Soviets have dismantled. Whatever it is doing in Afghanistan is an example of how pointless the organization has become.

Originally Posted by Defensor

Feel free to try again in sharing them.

Why do sovereign nations need the U.S.A. to be their protector?

There's a deeper problem if missiles are firing out of Iran, Pakistan, or India. :whistling:

And whose interests does that serve? The interests of the U.S.A., Europe, and Russia are all hurt by the pointless belligerence and bullying coming out of Washington.

'Defend' Europe from whom? The only reason Russia is expanding militarily is to prevent the United States from gaining further power as a potential threat in its own backyard.

We protect sovereign nations under treaty including the NATO charter. Do you suggest that we dismiss our international responsibilities? Those treaties are for the defense of Europe and NATO member nations against any aggressor. You asked from whom we are defending Europe? I'd ask from whom is Putin preparing to defend Russia?

Russia is ratcheting up its military because Putin understands that in order to retain his popularity he must position Russia as something other then a waning world power.