Thread: If you support Israel, do you support the settlements?

Although I do not support either I was wondering if those who do feel Israel is justified in its actions also

support the actions of the Israeli settlers who have set up settlements in the West Bank?



To me they seem two distinct groups and support for Israel does not have to mean support for what I consider and many others consider to be illegal settlements.

The only possible solution I can see to this mess would be an actuaall full on UN mission to stand between the two. I'm talking Bosnia / Cyprus style - two dozen countries with the full understanding they're going to stay there for generations. Not until there are 5,000 blue helmsts with genuinely neutral intentions standing in the West Bank is there going to be a shred of progress.



Oddly enough, the UN tries to do this every year and the US vetos it. Because as we all know, all justice involves giving the strongest and worst offenders a total veto over everyone else.

[quote name='Dr.Knuckles' date='22 November 2009 - 03:09 PM' timestamp='1258920566' post='65187']

The only possible solution I can see to this mess would be an actuaall full on UN mission to stand between the two. I'm talking Bosnia / Cyprus style - two dozen countries with the full understanding they're going to stay there for generations. Not until there are 5,000 blue helmsts with genuinely neutral intentions standing in the West Bank is there going to be a shred of progress.



Oddly enough, the UN tries to do this every year and the US vetos it. Because as we all know, all justice involves giving the strongest and worst offenders a total veto over everyone else.

[/quote]



Pretty much. That's pretty much it.



To answer Roach's question, I am one of those who supports Israel's "right to exist", and at the same time, feels that the settlements are enormous violations of Human Rights - most specifically Property Rights, which are universal to all human beings. Even the American Indians who considered that they were merely "stewards" of property, were willing to fight against encroachment.



To me, what Israel is doing with those settlements, is exactly equivalent to what Hitler did with Poland - it was called "lebensraum". Hitler simply declared that there was a "Greater Germany", and the concept of "Eretz Israel" is being used in exactly the same way.



And the fact that we, the United States, are standing up for that and supporting it, makes us hypocrites. Period.

[quote name='nonsqtr' date='22 November 2009 - 03:44 PM' timestamp='1258922669' post='65203']

Pretty much. That's pretty much it.



To answer Roach's question, I am one of those who supports Israel's "right to exist", and at the same time, feels that the settlements are enormous violations of Human Rights - most specifically Property Rights, which are universal to all human beings. Even the American Indians who considered that they were merely "stewards" of property, were willing to fight against encroachment.



To me, what Israel is doing with those settlements, is exactly equivalent to what Hitler did with Poland - it was called "lebensraum". Hitler simply declared that there was a "Greater Germany", and the concept of "Eretz Israel" is being used in exactly the same way.



And the fact that we, the United States, are standing up for that and supporting it, makes us hypocrites. Period.

[/quote]



Agree with Dr. K, that a massive force of "blue helmuts" need to get in there and separate Israelies and Palistinians.



With regards to the fence being constructed by Israel in the West Bank, it does limit the ability of the militants (Hamas, jihadists, etc) to penetrate Israeli territory to carry out attacks. I support that fence. But if it extends beyond the green line, as it does in some areas, then the UN needs to step up and resolve it since the UN created this mess in 1947. It looks like until a Palistinian state is created, Israel will continue to define its own boarder in that region. (In fact, the Israeli Supreme Court ruled in one case that the fence be rerouted because it encroached on Palistinians.) However, this is not in my view, the same as Germany expanding into Poland because Palistine is not a state and Israel exerts it's right to defend itself in routing the fence. As far as the U.S. being hypocrites, I would just say speak for yourself.

Why should i support Israel? What have they done for me? Why should I care?

NO MORE SETTLEMENTS! NO WAIT CHANGED MY MIND .....MORE SETTLEMENTS! WHO FUCKING CARES!



THAT RANKS ABOUT NEAR ZERO ON THE PRIORITY LIST.

Apart from some fairly glaring posts I felt that was fairly positive.



I think on things people can agree on the settlements is a much easier thing for everyone to settle on.

Unfortunately I gotta agree with knuckles that a UN force is the only way to sort this.

Gotta wonder what the ulterior motive is for Israel to pressure the US to stay out. Unless of course it is merely American reluctance,

It just appears to me that Israel want to keep a monopoly of control on the whole area.