Thread: Anti-americans then and now

To start us off here are some excerpts from:
Anti-Americanism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Anti-Americanism, often Anti-American sentiment, is opposition or hostility toward the government, culture, or people of the United States.[1] In practice, a broad range of attitudes and actions critical of or opposed to the United States have been labeled anti-Americanism and the applicability of the term is often disputed. [2] Contemporary examples typically focus on international opposition to United States policy, though historically the term has been applied to a variety of concepts.
Interpretations of anti-Americanism have often been polarised. Anti-Americanism has been described as a belief[3] that configures the United States and the "American way of life" as threatening at their core.[4] However, it has also been suggested that Anti-Americanism cannot be isolated as a consistent phenomenon and that the term merely signifies a rough composite of stereotypes, prejudices and criticisms towards Americans or the United States.

Since the founding of the United States of America, anti-Americanism has existed in different forms and for different reasons. Some anti-American views derive from ideological resistance to American values and culture. Other views are expressions of group identity, racism, and xenophobia. Still other anti-American sentiments are reactions to the policies of the United States government.

Anti-American sentiment in Europe originated with the discovery of America, the study of the Native Americans, and the examination of its flora, fauna, and climate. The first anti-American theory, the "degeneracy thesis," portrayed America as a regressive and culturally bankrupt continent. The theory that the humidity and other atmospheric conditions in America physically and morally weakened both men and animals was commonly argued in Europe and debated by early American thinkers such as Alexander Hamilton, Benjamin Franklin, and Thomas Jefferson.
In 1768 Cornelius de Pauw, court philosopher to Frederick II of Prussia and chief proponent of this thesis, described America as "degenerate or monstrous" colonies and argued that, "the weakest European could crush them with ease."[16]
The theory was extended to argue that the natural environment of the United States would prevent it from ever producing true culture. Paraphrasing Pauw, the French Encyclopedist Abbé Raynal wrote, "America has not yet produced a good poet, an able mathematician, one man of genius in a single art or a single science."[17] (So virulent was Raynal's antipathy that his book was suppressed by the French monarchy.)



Some critics argue that anti-Americanism ideology often correlates with other forms of perceived extremism, such as virulent nationalist movements, radical Islam, or communism.
Self-proclaimed French anti-anti-American, Bernard-Henri Levy, described this view, "Anti-Americanism is a horror… It is a magnet of the worst. In the entire world and in France in particular, everything that is the worst in people's heads comes together around anti-Americanism: racism, nationalism, chauvinism, anti-semitism."


In the middle of the nineteenth century, the racialist theories of Arthur de Gobineau and others spread through Europe. The presence of blacks and "lower quality" immigrant groups made racialist thinkers discount the potential of the United States. The infinite mixing of America would lead to the ultimate degeneracy. Gobineau said that America was creating "greatest mediocrity in all fields: mediocrity of physical strength, mediocrity of beauty, mediocrity of intellectual capacities - we could almost say nothingness."

Continued:

According to its opponents, globalization has magnified the visibility of trade conflicts and decreased job security[19], and is often attributed to either US or Anglo-American influence[20] "Globalization is the result of powerful governments, especially that of the United States, pushing trade deals and other accords[21]." Anti-globalist resentments stem from perceptions that the United States was the inspiration for globalization and neoliberal free trade policy, which those opposed to it claim is exploitive, and that thus America in particular has gotten rich by making others poor. This globalization also supposedly exposed previously isolated countries to the spread of the English language and American popular culture, a process that some have labeled cultural imperialism despite the role played by consumer choice (see American Cultural Imperialism). Though cosmopolitanism and exposure of communities to new cultures and ideas is widely considered a benefit (Multiculturalism and diversity), that the spread of American culture is deemed pernicious is one sign of anti-Americanism. The 'Anglo-American' corporate business model is the subject of much hostility

"The fundamental role of anti-Americanism in Europe in general, and particularly among those on the Left, is to absolve themselves of their own moral failings and intellectual errors by heaping them onto the monster scapegoat, the United States of America. For stupidity and bloodshed to vanish from Europe, the U.S. must be identified as the singular threat to democracy (contrary to every lesson of actual history). Thus, during the Cold War, it was dogma among Europeans from Sweden to Sicily, from Athens to Paris, that the "imperialistic" power was America, even though it was the USSR that annexed Eastern Europe, made satellites out of several African countries, and invaded Afghanistan, even though it was the People's Republic of China that marched into Tibet, attacked South Korea, and subjugated three Indochinese countries. A similar dynamic applies today in the war on terror

Samuel Johnson hit upon one theme that, in various and different forms, has long defined some forms of anti-American sentiment: the perceived hypocrisy of a supposed freedom-loving people engaged in less than admirable practices. Americans in his eyes were hypocrites in their relations with Indigenous peoples and African slaves.
"How is it that we hear the loudest yelps for liberty among the drivers of negroes?" He famously stated that, "I am willing to love all mankind, except an American."
What distinguishes such attitudes from anti-slavery and anti-racism or opposition to colonialism in principle from anti-Americanism is that it roots these phenomena almost uniquely in American culture, scapegoating it while tacitly absolving others. For example, contemporaneous slavery in Brazil, or France championing Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite while running a Colonial Empire, or Johnston's own liberal Britain with its treatment of Indians in the Raj. A rational critic would condemn all such, but anti-Americanism is seen in the willingness to love (forgive) all but Americans.
Such distinctions carry through to similar extreme forms of condemnation of American policies, separating them from principled oppositions to particular policies.

In political terms, even among the allies of the United States, Britain and France, there was resentment at the end of the war as they found themselves massively in debt to the United States. These sentiments became even more widespread during the interbellum and Great Depression and sometimes tended toward the anti-Semitic: the belief that America was ruled by a Jewish conspiracy was common in countries ruled by fascists before and during World War II.



The fall of the Soviet Union may have brought an increase in anti-Americanism because the U.S. was left as the world's only superpower and people who formerly saw the United States as a bastion against Communism or needed the American security umbrella no longer felt the need to support the United States.

"For skeptics of democratic capitalism, the United States is, quite simply, the enemy. For many years, and still today, a principal function of anti-Americanism has been to discredit the nation that stands as the supreme alternative to socialism. More recently, Islamists, anti-modern Greens, and others have taken to pillorying the U.S. for the same reason."

Our love/hate relationship with US culture is possibly the most contradictory aspect of Australian culture and identity today. We consume vast amounts of US popular culture in an addictive manner but, as with the daily consumption of Coke or cigarettes, this consumption comes with a guilty aftertaste for many. Recent surveys show Australians to be among the most enthusiastic consumers of US culture and one of the nations most worried about the Americanization of our society. This paradox goes some way to explaining why Australian anti-Americanism is often inarticulate and not classifiable as pathological anti-Americanism

"In the two months after 9/11, the phobias and fallacies of traditional anti-Americanism massively intensified," and "A group of 113 French intellectuals launched an appeal against the 'imperial crusade' in Afghanistan: 'In the name of the law and morality of the jungle' (not because 3,000 people had been murdered), 'the Western armada administers its divine justice' . . .Today's unilateralist pacifists condemned the American counterattack against the Taliban in Afghanistan precisely because it was a counterattack.


"Although anti-Americanism is genuinely widespread among Arab governments and peoples, however, there is something seriously misleading in this account. Arab and Muslim hatred of the United States is not just, or even mainly, a response to actual U.S. policies -- policies that, if anything, have been remarkably pro-Arab and pro-Muslim over the years. Rather, such animus is largely the product of self-interested manipulation by various groups within Arab society, groups that use anti-Americanism as a foil to distract public attention from other, far more serious problems within those societies

So who do you think the anti americans are today? And what are their motives?

Anti americans; they are everywhere, even in America itself. Why do you ask? Are you planning on bashing them all?
What are their motives; they think the Americans fucked up over Iraq.
Yes, i think that is the most commone one.
Also, a lack of understanding for the American people. Let's face it; not matter which country you are from you always think that people from other counrtries are up their own arses. This is the reality; i could have a go at Americans, even though it would be a generalisation, but if i was given the choice between having a go at the Americans and the Japanese, i would much rather have a go at the Japanese. There is no point in denying the fact; there is something in your blood that makes you feel like other nationalities are different to yours, and often feeling different makes you dislike or even hate.

Don't worry, there is much less anti-americanism here than anti-other nationalities.

Check out "Hating America" by Barry and Judith Rubin. It's a bit dry, but it touches on many of the same points that you have already brought up and gets much more in depth.

I hate having cockroaches in my kitchen. When I find them I say 'There are cockroaches in the kitchen' and I find them and kill them. I don't say 'that's my kitchen and I am clean. It is impossible for there to be cockroaches there' and then call anyone who says they see a cockroach a liar. Villify them in the media, call them traitors and tell them if they dont like my perfectly clean, unsoiled God-given kitchen they can leave and see how they like eating in Russia.

Am I anti-kitchen? Do I hate my kitchen and it's freedoms? Is it me?

Just asking.

Originally Posted by Dr.Knuckles

I hate having cockroaches in my kitchen. When I find them I say 'There are cockroaches in the kitchen' and I find them and kill them. I don't say 'that's my kitchen and I am clean. It is impossible for there to be cockroaches there' and then call anyone who says they see a cockroach a liar. Villify them in the media, call them traitors and tell them if they dont like my perfectly clean, unsoiled God-given kitchen they can leave and see how they like eating in Russia.

Am I anti-kitchen? Do I hate my kitchen and it's freedoms? Is it me?

Just asking.

I love this post. Very good example

Originally Posted by Dr.Knuckles

I hate having cockroaches in my kitchen. When I find them I say 'There are cockroaches in the kitchen' and I find them and kill them. I don't say 'that's my kitchen and I am clean. It is impossible for there to be cockroaches there' and then call anyone who says they see a cockroach a liar. Villify them in the media, call them traitors and tell them if they dont like my perfectly clean, unsoiled God-given kitchen they can leave and see how they like eating in Russia.

Am I anti-kitchen? Do I hate my kitchen and it's freedoms? Is it me?

Just asking.

If the motives of the anti-americans were to reshape america as a better country that would make sense.

Too many of them would like to see capitalism replaced by socialism so they pretend to criticize america for good motives when they just want any opportunity to tear it down. They don't care about the cockroaches they just want to expand the living room.

The same can be said of those who just want to expand their party, their communism, their islamism, their...

Just for fun, name a few well known critics of America at random and lets see if they just hate cockroaches.

If they're trying to replace capitalism with socialism they are, yes, extremests. If they are trying to add socilaist elements to the mix that is multi-party governments they are doing what every other democracy on Earth does. Having a left wing party. Sorry... supporting increasing the minimum wage, just to take an example, is not REPLACING capitalism with socialsim, it is supporting one socialist issue... just like every healthy democracy has socialist policies. You have a minumum wage already right? You have welfare programs? The majority of Americans support these so they are policy - they didn't vote to become suddenly entirely communist, they voted for one policy to change the make-up of their government. Need both wings to fly straight right?

If a socialist, Islamist, Communist, Fascist, Racist, Sexist, redneck, hillbilly, idiot, genius whatever honestly believes his policy is better for the country then he is not an anti-American traitor for persuing it... he's a patriot doing what he honestly believes is best for hsi country. Disagreeing over what's best is normal, healthy democracy.... if that's anti-Americanism then I'd hate to see the nightmare of pro-Americanism.

Have you ever heard another Western democracy use that term? He's Anti-Swedish? That guy is Anti-New Zealand? Anti-Canadians protested today in Ottawa? No... and almost every other Western Democracy had further left policies than the US. Many have socialist parties that sometimes win.... France's righties won with 55 percent or something, the socialists got 45%. 45% of France is anti-France?

Why is someone who supports a policy that works well in Canada, Germany Switzerland and Scotland... like public monopoly utilities for example... called a traitor for saying, "hey, it works there, I'd like to try it here"?

Honestly disagree....... traitor....... see the difference?

Originally Posted by Dr.Knuckles

Have you ever heard another Western democracy use that term? He's Anti-Swedish?

Thats a good point. Anti-American is actually used as a word to describe American. Its creating an identity by describing what you are not through a double-negative. Its not 'American to "support the troops"', its 'Anti-American' not to. Its a term of exclusion, and thereby confers a sense of belonging to those who utter or agree with what's being said...

By accusing others of being Anti-American, you are re-affirming your own sense of belonging...

Originally Posted by Dr.Knuckles

If they're trying to replace capitalism with socialism they are, yes, extremests. If they are trying to add socilaist elements to the mix that is multi-party governments they are doing what every other democracy on Earth does. Having a left wing party. Sorry... supporting increasing the minimum wage, just to take an example, is not REPLACING capitalism with socialsim, it is supporting one socialist issue... just like every healthy democracy has socialist policies. You have a minumum wage already right? You have welfare programs? The majority of Americans support these so they are policy - they didn't vote to become suddenly entirely communist, they voted for one policy to change the make-up of their government. Need both wings to fly straight right?

If a socialist, Islamist, Communist, Fascist, Racist, Sexist, redneck, hillbilly, idiot, genius whatever honestly believes his policy is better for the country then he is not an anti-American traitor for persuing it... he's a patriot doing what he honestly believes is best for hsi country. Disagreeing over what's best is normal, healthy democracy.... if that's anti-Americanism then I'd hate to see the nightmare of pro-Americanism.

I agree. when they are doing what they think is best that is good. That would meet our mutually arrived at definition of killing cockroaches. When they make up cockroaches, allude to non-existent cockroaches, exaggerate cockroaches, etc. then that is bad. And we both know that plenty of people on both sides of the aisle go searching for cockroaches, not because the want to kill cockroaches, but because they want to blame the maid for poor cleanliness.

Have you ever heard another Western democracy use that term? He's Anti-Swedish? That guy is Anti-New Zealand? Anti-Canadians protested today in Ottawa? No... and almost every other Western Democracy had further left policies than the US. Many have socialist parties that sometimes win.... France's righties won with 55 percent or something, the socialists got 45%. 45% of France is anti-France?

Why is someone who supports a policy that works well in Canada, Germany Switzerland and Scotland... like public monopoly utilities for example... called a traitor for saying, "hey, it works there, I'd like to try it here"?

Honestly disagree....... traitor....... see the difference?

The honest person is just right or wrong, as are we all, But, the traitor knows he is full of BS and he says it anyway.

Have I seen other anti-s? Why yes I have. When I posted the above article they had a whole section at the bottom full of links to articles about other anti-s. Here they are:

• Anti-Arabism
• Anti-Australian sentiment
• Anti-Canadianism
• Anti-Chinese sentiment
• Anglophobia
• Death to America Day
• Francophobia
• Anti-German sentiment

• Indophobia
• Islamophobia
• Anti-Hinduism
• Anti-Japanese sentiment
• Anti-Polish sentiment
• Russophobia
• Anti-Zionism & Antisemitism