Thread: Obama and Afghanistan

[quote name='nomadrider' date='19 October 2009 - 12:57 PM' timestamp='1255971467' post='40996']

Liberals sound the familiar bell "it's Bush's fault, it's Bush's fault". The situation is Afgh/Pakis region is what it is, regardless of it's origins. And now, 9 months into his administration, Obama continues to procrastinate. Why? To appease his left base. I won't be surprised next week if Obama announces he's going begin negotiations with Al Qaeda while Gen. McChrystal is left to twist in the wind.

"A bad peace is even worse than war."- Tacitus

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No, The liberal strawman isn't going to be a valid rebuttal. Obama actually campaigned on re-focusing on Afghanistan. Now that he is in office and has a better assessment of the situation, he can see that it isn't so simple. It is a fact that under George W Bush, we were not getting a clear picture. Obama appointed the general and he asked for a report and now he is trying to figure out what to do. The neocons had several years with George W Bush in control and it turns out that we were still on sqaure one the day Bush left office. I am blaming Bush for just continuing on with a failed strategy and leaving the mess for the next guy to clean up.

[quote name='International Underwriter' date='19 October 2009 - 05:38 PM' timestamp='1255991936' post='41171']

Abandon the region? Excellent idea. Who cares? Al qaeda was out of there years ago. And we were only there for the pipeline anyway. And the only reason Afghanistan was included as part of the middle east was a nomenclature change to the "greater Middle East" as justification of a longer war



The Taliban do not believe in drugs and poppies. the restarting of Afghan poppy fields only occurred after we meddled there. As for sharia law, it is their country. In iraq we got rid of a secuilar gov't and now have sharia law there......are you similarly concerned?



It has already spilled over to paksitan. And they spilling over sort of reminds me of Vietnam and spilling over to cambodia. Just curious? how'd that work out for us?



a proper counter insurgency strategy would prolly require 500,000 boots on the ground. Would you seriously support that sort of commitment? Can you say draft?



Karzai is past corrupt. And most likely would lose any honest election. The last time we supported a government that was in charge of only the capital, was Vietnam and Saigon. Once again, how'd that work out for us?

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It's clear you prefer the region to be governed by Jihadist's and welcome the reestablishment of terrorists camps. And you support Sharia law that commands jihad, stones to death adulterers, orders the death of those critical of Muhammad and Quran, and executes homosexuals just to name a few. And the money that's generated from poppy sales goes where? Your answer would be a new Club Med I suppose.

Gen. McChrystal requested 40K troops, but with your top secret clearance from a cereal box, know it would be at least 500K. (Be sure and stock up on that medical cannabis). And you bring up Vietnam inferring that Afghanistan is Obama's Vietnam. Yes, unfortunately, for the Afghans, it will be Obama's Vietnam because the Wuss-in-Chief doesn't have the cojones to get it done. Your savior, Hiswonderfullness, is the new world negotiator (even awarded a prize recently) just as Kissenger negotiated a "peace with honor" with North Vietnam. I wouldn't be surprised if Obama announces talks with Al Qaeda next week. There's only one problem, how do you explain your beliefs to the relatives of those killed in the twin towers, killed by Jihadist's. So, crawl back into your snuggie, let others protect your freedoms, and remember to negotiate with terrorists when they come knocking on your door.



"In a free country there is much clamor, with little suffering; in a despotic state there is little complaint, with much grievance."~~ Lazare Carnot

[quote name='Defensor' date='19 October 2009 - 06:58 PM' timestamp='1255996704' post='41259']

I assume you never watched the video of the U.S. and Israel blowing up and slaughtering hundreds of thousands of people around the world. Again and again and again.



Your political primitiveness is built on the shifting sands of ignorance.





Personally I prefer not having hundreds of thousands of people die unnecessarily, along with trillions of dollars of debt, entire countries destroyed, and irreversible damage to America's moral standing.



But that's just me.

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[quote name='Defensor' date='19 October 2009 - 06:58 PM' timestamp='1255996704' post='41259']

I assume you never watched the video of the U.S. and Israel blowing up and slaughtering hundreds of thousands of people around the world. Again and again and again.



Your political primitiveness is built on the shifting sands of ignorance.





Personally I prefer not having hundreds of thousands of people die unnecessarily, along with trillions of dollars of debt, entire countries destroyed, and irreversible damage to America's moral standing.



But that's just me.

[/quote]



Just remember to negotiate when the terrorists come to your door.

[quote name='nomadrider' date='19 October 2009 - 11:27 PM' timestamp='1256009223' post='41390']

Just remember to negotiate when the terrorists come to your door.

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You mean when the IRS comes to my door? Or the FBI? CIA? DEA? Local cops?



So many different types of terrorist these days.

[quote name='justoneman' date='18 October 2009 - 01:05 PM' timestamp='1255885519' post='40468']

The whole idea of the invasion of Afganistan was to attempt to get those responsible for 911. That effort was over years and years ago. We have been dumping billions into trying to make Afganistan france. It never will be. I am not happy the mission has changed there. When the Soviets left Afghanistan, there was nothing left. Kabul was nothing but rubble. They had no sanitation or electricity or schools. It is not our job to try to restore this country to former pre-Soviet invasion status, yet at some point this turned into the mission. Even before the Soviet invasion Afghanistan was a loose connection of warlord controlled territories. When we eventually leave it will be that way just as it is right now. that is not something we can change without a million troops there for 30 years. In many ways Afghanistan is worse than Vietnam. We need to get out.

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So let me get this straight, you supported the Iraq war because you were afraid of Saddam's non-existent WMD's yet Pakistan has nuclear weapons and the Taliban is controlling a large portion of Pakistan and growing closer to their capitol everyday (as well as wanting to take back Afghanistan). If we give them Afghanistan how long do you think it will take before we see them take complete control of Pakistan and what do we do then?

All the grade schools in the areas of Pakistan controlled by the Taliban are having their kids pray everyday for the death and destruction of America. Their entire next generation is being brainwashed to kill Americans and you want to just leave them be? This practice is far more of a threat to us than Iraq ever was yet you want to ignore it?

[quote name='bluesman' date='18 October 2009 - 11:28 PM' timestamp='1255922902' post='40777']

How long have we been over there? Obama inherited a mess and it was George W Bush who was stalling. They always kept a positive spin on it and only now after George W Bush is out of office we are not getting a more honest assesment of the actual situation. I think it is wise to re-think the strategy since what we have done has not worked. McCrystal's job is the military aspect but the solution will not come from military action alone. Afghanistan is not Iraq and what worked in Iraq is not going to work in Afghanistan. Obama has already deployed addtional troops and I think it is worth the extra couple of weeks to try to do what is best and the Obama haters are going to hate him either way so they made thier opinion politically insignificant.

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Except what worked in Iraq really did not work at all. We put in a democracy and as soon as a devout shite runs for leadership on the platform of theocracy he is going to win and Iraq will go back to being an Islamic state. That is when it will become apparent that our trillion dollars and 4000 troops was a friggin waste of time.