Thread: Libertarian charity

If taxes were removed completely how much would you contribute in total to Charitable organisations aiding the poor, disabled etc.?

Under 2.....

Originally Posted by Sparta

Under 2.....

How heartless! I think I might change username to Athens! lol!

I really can't say.

First and foremost I'd focus on my children's education and a healthy lifestyle for my family.

Then I'd make sure I have financial security as much as possible.

And then I'd give the rest to charity.

In all honesty, I don't want a rich lifestyle, I think it'd lead to unhappiness.

Originally Posted by commiekiller

If taxes were removed completely how much would you contribute in total to Charitable organisations aiding the poor, disabled etc.?

Really depends on the causes. Imagine a charity evolving into a wage-paying organization with it's own costs!

I think it's obvious that an exclusively charity based system would not bring up enough money to ease hardship for the unlucky.

Only a tax based public welfare system can make sure enough money is available to ease social problems.

I support abolishment of taxes because I want to keep whats mine. Why would I turn around and give it all away again? I may not be on the street, but someones got to save for the kids college, otherwise he may be begging for a hand out someday. I'd give under 2%, because I'm feeling generous.

Originally Posted by Sparta

I support abolishment of taxes because I want to keep whats mine. Why would I turn around and give it all away again? I may not be on the street, but someones got to save for the kids college, otherwise he may be begging for a hand out someday. I'd give under 2%, because I'm feeling generous.

Humans are not only individuals, but social animals as well, who like to live with other fellow humans. That is just as much part of the human nature as individualism. If there was no community, we would live like in the jungle, in an eternal war of everybody against everybody else, in anarchy, where the strong take everything from the poor and where the rights of nobody would be respected. That is why we need the state.

Our community today is the state. We delegate all tasks to the state which can better be done collectively than individually -- such as national defense, a legal system, police force and so on. We need to do that, do prevent the natural state of anarchy as described above. We need the state to protect our rights and liberties.

The state provides you services, and you have to pay something in return for these services. You are profiting immensely from the state. Not paying for it would be theft -- so this money you claim is "yours" is not yours at all.

And when it's the collective job of the state to take care of national defense and a legal system, because those things cannot be done on individual level, why shouldn't it also be the job of the state to make sure nobody has to starve or die of a curable illness?

Originally Posted by Sim

Humans are not only individuals, but social animals as well, who like to live with other fellow humans. That is just as much part of the human nature as individualism. If there was no community, we would live like in the jungle, in an eternal war of everybody against everybody else, in anarchy, where the strong take everything from the poor and where the rights of nobody would be respected. That is why we need the state.

Our community today is the state. We delegate all tasks to the state which can better be done collectively than individually -- such as national defense, a legal system, police force and so on. We need to do that, do prevent the natural state of anarchy as described above. We need the state to protect our rights and liberties.

The state provides you services, and you have to pay something in return for these services. You are profiting immensely from the state. Not paying for it would be theft -- so this money you claim is "yours" is not yours at all.

And when it's the collective job of the state to take care of national defense and a legal system, because those things cannot be done on individual level, why shouldn't it also be the job of the state to make sure nobody has to starve or die of a curable illness?

I'm not libertarian, and I showed you why I don't think it would work. I do consider my income my money though, and feel that I should have say in how it's spent. I'd prefer to see a sales tax in place of an income tax. As far as the comunity goes, it over steps its bounds by redistributing wealth, by using my money to pay for social services. You see, if my tax money went to maintain roads, a police force, and a court house, you'd be right. It doesnt however, it pays for dental appointments for 'underpriviledged' citizens. It pays for methadone treatments for 'recovering' drug addicts. Those are not services to me, nor are they services required to maintain a community, those are services required to get votes, and I don't need votes.

Originally Posted by Sparta

I'm not libertarian, and I showed you why I don't think it would work. I do consider my income my money though, and feel that I should have say in how it's spent. I'd prefer to see a sales tax in place of an income tax. As far as the comunity goes, it over steps its bounds by redistributing wealth, by using my money to pay for social services. You see, if my tax money went to maintain roads, a police force, and a court house, you'd be right. It doesnt however, it pays for dental appointments for 'underpriviledged' citizens. It pays for methadone treatments for 'recovering' drug addicts. Those are not services to me, nor are they services required to maintain a community, those are services required to get votes, and I don't need votes.

I couldn't care less what kind of tax system you use to maintain social security. Finance it all by sales taxes, if you like.

But see, everybody, you as well as me, could be unlucky one day: Have an illness or an accident resulting in disability, or lose our job without the chance of finding a new one on the short run.

When then, there are social systems that help you not to starve or die, just because you happen to be unlucky, is something each of us is profiting from.

Of course it's debatable how exactly such a social system has to look like, and which services should be included and which not. But I believe, in general, such a system is necessary and benefits the whole society, including you and me.