Thread: Is Taxation theft?

I just want to put a question to people, do you think that taxation is theft without the consent of the individual being taxed?

And I mean direct, signed consent by the individual themselves, not a vote by some representative.

If not please explain.

I feel it obviously is because it is exactly the same as me randomly moving your lawn or washing your car without consent and then demanding payment.

Yes....................

Originally Posted by Feslin

Yes...

Incidentally do you consider yourself a voluntaryist and do you believe we have the right to disobey the commands of a state we have not given our consent to rule us?

As Auberon Herbert(or perahaps it was his mentor Herbert Spencer.) do we have a right to ignore the state?

Originally Posted by Feela

Incidentally do you consider yourself a voluntaryist and do you believe we have the right to disobey the commands of a state we have not given our consent to rule us?

If by "right" you mean "to be rightful in an action" then in most cases, yes.

In the case of doing things that harm other people or their property (murder, rape, theft, etc) no.

No, because by being in a society you have consenting to contribute to that society. Ever read The Social Contract by Rousseau?

Originally Posted by Ausinus

No, because by being in a society you have consenting to contribute to that society. Ever read The Social Contract by Rousseau?

Rousseau was a jackass who never got anything right.

He claimed that in 200 years Christianity would be gone.

EDIT: Unless I'm thinkin of Voltaire.

Either way, they're both jackasses who never got anything right.

Originally Posted by Feslin

If by "right" you mean "to be rightful in an action" then in most cases, yes.

In the case of doing things that harm other people or their property (murder, rape, theft, etc) no.

Yes of course, obviously we have no right to coerce others but you believe then the state cannot command us without consent and we have the right to ignore it?

Or to put it another way, do you believe in voluntaryism?
I personally think that if you believe taxation is theft without consent it impossible not to be a voluntaryist.

Originally Posted by Feslin

Rousseau was a jackass who never got anything right.

He claimed that in 200 years Christianity would be gone.

EDIT: Unless I'm thinkin of Voltaire.

Either way, they're both jackasses who never got anything right.

Yeah, Voltaire support on freedom of speech and though was never right was it?

Anyway that he never got anything right is an opinion.

Originally Posted by Feela

Yes of course, obviously we have no right to coerce others but you believe then the state cannot command us without consent and we have the right to ignore it?

Or to put it another way, do you believe in voluntaryism?
I personally think that if you believe taxation is theft without consent it impossible not to be a voluntaryist.

Unless you show intent, recklessess, or have done harm, the state has no reason to command you. And thus, shouldn't.

So yes, I believe in voluntaryism.

What Ausinus is spouting is another reason I like communal land ownership. They'll always claim "If you don't like the coercion, leave."

Originally Posted by Ausinus

No, because by being in a society you have consenting to contribute to that society. Ever read The Social Contract by Rousseau?

Well first I really suggest you read Lysander Spooner's No Treason, he demolishes social contract theoy

NoTreason

And when did I ever consent to recieve the services of the state?
Consent means you actually individually consent, not some representative you may never have voted for "gives" your consent.
My example still holds good, if I mow your lawn without consent and demand payment, I'm in the wrong, so why isn't the state?