Thread: The Mosque campaign

Certain people on this site try to defend the indefensible- Islam (namely RehabtheArab and Raji). In a funny kind of way I understand where they are coming from but they just refuse to even entertain my thoughts on Islam.

However surely they could not object to this. What if it could be organised to press Western Imams and other Islamic clerics into launching a sustained campaign of condemnation against terrorism, Al-Qaeada, FGM etc. And I don't mean any of these perfunctory statements the Imams have come up with in the past, which are worded like this for example "I believe that what Al-Qaeda did was at odds with Islam". In my view that kind of phrasology is implicit approval of terrorism. What we need is for Imams to hurl a torrent of condescending invective against Al-Qaeda- letting the west know whose side they are on once and for all!! Mosques should be plastered with posters ridiculing Al-Qaeda and illustrating how its members are on a fast-train to hell. This would all discourage muslim youths from becoming extremist and restore public confidence in the western form of Islam (Islam in the west seems much more progressive than in the deranged hotbeds such as Iran or Indonesia). Even the person who hates me most on this site- raji- must surely agree with this idea?!!!

I agree. They need to speak out. I know that some have, saying they don't condone the violence, but then they turn right around and say "...but if America would stop supporting Israel, blah blah blah..." In other words, they didn't sound very sincere and in the end, were still justifying the violence.

its hypocritical to ask someone to renounce violence when not doing so yourself 911 was a tragedy - but so is Iraq.
Ill tell you what does piss me off though. They are trying to build a supermosque here in the UK - Britain is not a Muslim country.

Originally Posted by InspectorMorse

its hypocritical to ask someone to renounce violence when not doing so yourself 911 was a tragedy - but so is Iraq.
Ill tell you what does piss me off though. They are trying to build a supermosque here in the UK - Britain is not a Muslim country.

Iraq is a legitimately conducted war (unnecessary though it was). Terrorism is more frightening. If a Muslim country declares war- fair enough- we will fight them. But they are too cowardly because they know they will lose!!

Originally Posted by commiekiller

Certain people on this site try to defend the indefensible- Islam (namely RehabtheArab and Raji). In a funny kind of way I understand where they are coming from but they just refuse to even entertain my thoughts on Islam.

However surely they could not object to this. What if it could be organised to press Western Imams and other Islamic clerics into launching a sustained campaign of condemnation against terrorism, Al-Qaeada, FGM etc. And I don't mean any of these perfunctory statements the Imams have come up with in the past, which are worded like this for example "I believe that what Al-Qaeda did was at odds with Islam". In my view that kind of phrasology is implicit approval of terrorism. What we need is for Imams to hurl a torrent of condescending invective against Al-Qaeda- letting the west know whose side they are on once and for all!! Mosques should be plastered with posters ridiculing Al-Qaeda and illustrating how its members are on a fast-train to hell. This would all discourage muslim youths from becoming extremist and restore public confidence in the western form of Islam (Islam in the west seems much more progressive than in the deranged hotbeds such as Iran or Indonesia). Even the person who hates me most on this site- raji- must surely agree with this idea?!!!

I agree, this should be encouraged, it should happen.

All Moderate Western Imams MUST be encouraged to fully condemn ALL acts of terrorism committed by Al-Qaeda and those groupings that are sympathetic to Al-Qaeda.

The only way I think that young Muslims are going to reject Radical Islam and Al-Qaeda, is if Radical Islam and Al-Qaeda are fully marginalized within Muslim communities in Western nations.

With regard to Iran being a "deranged hotbed", ONLY the Ultra-Conservatives in Iran support Radicalism....the majority of ordinary Iranian's reject Radicalism and are actually rather Westernized in their approach to society....of course since the loopy Iranian President got in, Secularism is frowned upon in Iran, modernity is frowned upon.

Since the early 1990's Iran was very different than say Afghanistan, Iran was moving forward and modernizing....which makes it even more of a shame that because of the sabre rattling from the American Neo-Conservatives, the Iranian people felt under threat and so entrusted their survival to a hardman, who bizarrely if one reads about him is himself like an Iranian Neo-Conservative.

Originally Posted by commiekiller

Certain people on this site try to defend the indefensible- Islam (namely RehabtheArab and Raji). In a funny kind of way I understand where they are coming from but they just refuse to even entertain my thoughts on Islam.

However surely they could not object to this. What if it could be organised to press Western Imams and other Islamic clerics into launching a sustained campaign of condemnation against terrorism, Al-Qaeada, FGM etc. And I don't mean any of these perfunctory statements the Imams have come up with in the past, which are worded like this for example "I believe that what Al-Qaeda did was at odds with Islam". In my view that kind of phrasology is implicit approval of terrorism. What we need is for Imams to hurl a torrent of condescending invective against Al-Qaeda- letting the west know whose side they are on once and for all!! Mosques should be plastered with posters ridiculing Al-Qaeda and illustrating how its members are on a fast-train to hell. This would all discourage muslim youths from becoming extremist and restore public confidence in the western form of Islam (Islam in the west seems much more progressive than in the deranged hotbeds such as Iran or Indonesia). Even the person who hates me most on this site- raji- must surely agree with this idea?!!!

one thing arabs and muslims have denounced Al Qaeda as a terrorist evil force. Another is that muslims should not have to defend there faith for what one idiot did. Another is that maybe the wwest should freken learn something and gain knowledge before spreading crap. Mosques are for worship not for showing your political affiliation.

Originally Posted by AhabtheArab

one thing arabs and muslims have denounced Al Qaeda as a terrorist evil force. Another is that muslims should not have to defend there faith for what one idiot did. Another is that maybe the wwest should freken learn something and gain knowledge before spreading crap. Mosques are for worship not for showing your political affiliation.

I don't give a damn about this righteousness bull! I want to be able to fly without fear!! One needs to be practical and discourage muslim youths from fundamentalism. Advertising agencies will explain to you why we need to put posters in Mosques! ever heard of target audience?

Originally Posted by commiekiller

Iraq is a legitimately conducted war (unnecessary though it was). Terrorism is more frightening. If a Muslim country declares war- fair enough- we will fight them. But they are too cowardly because they know they will lose!!

But they are too cowardly because they know they will lose!!

How can one win a "war" with a group of fanatics who are willing to blow themselves up in suicide bombs?

They might actually have the upper hand eventually, because they WANT to die, they don't mind dying for their cause.

Regular and legitimate soldiers go to war and they know that they very possibly might die....but regular and legitimate soldiers don't WANT to die.

So unless it's a case of Perpetual War that lasts 20, 30, 40 years et al....what would be the plan for "winning" a war and/or wars against those who possess the ultimate weapon....the DELIBERATE use of their OWN bodies.

Originally Posted by AhabtheArab

one thing arabs and muslims have denounced Al Qaeda as a terrorist evil force. Another is that muslims should not have to defend there faith for what one idiot did. Another is that maybe the wwest should freken learn something and gain knowledge before spreading crap. Mosques are for worship not for showing your political affiliation.

A lot of Mosques though are being used as cover for the preaching of hatred against the West....even though those Mosques are IN the West.

It's happened more than once in London, the Finsbury Park Mosque being the most infamous example.

Muslims try to change Islamic killing machine
'To live in the Middle East and say what we're saying is a death sentence'
Posted: March 6, 2007
2:10 a.m. Eastern

By Art Moore
© 2007 WorldNetDaily.com

ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. – A group of reformists from Muslim societies who have become accustomed to death threats upped the ante yesterday with a declaration they hope will spark a popular movement across the Islamic world to "fight back" against fundamentalist interpreters of the faith.

Secularists such as Ibn Warraq, Nonie Darwish and Irshad Manji helped formulate the "St. Petersburg Declaration," which seeks to do no less than eliminate traditional understandings and practices of Islam that conflict with universally accepted human rights.

Darwish, who read the statement in Arabic – others presented it in English, Bengali and Farsi – believes the statement will resonate with untold millions.

"You cannot believe the hunger of Muslims to hear what we're saying right now," said Darwish, a native of Egypt and a founder of ArabsForIsrael.com. "At least 50 percent will tell us, you are right, but don't reveal my name. They are so scared to speak out. To live in the Middle East and say what we're saying is a death sentence."

Darwish was among the speakers at the two-day Secular Islam Summit in St. Petersburg, which culminated with the declaration. Warraq, who uses a pseudonym because of death threats that followed his book "Why I am not a Muslim," abandoned Islam and considers himself an agnostic. Manji, author of the bestseller "The Trouble with Islam," sees herself as both a committed Muslim and a free thinker.

In the statement, the signatories identify as "believers, doubters, and unbelievers, brought together by a great struggle, not between the West and Islam, but between the free and the unfree."

Anticipating their critics, the crafters say, "We see no colonialism, racism, or so-called 'Islamaphobia' in submitting Islamic practices to criticism or condemnation when they violate human reason or rights."

Already, they have been criticized by the head of the Florida chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, Ahmed Bedier, who dismissed the framers of the declaration as atheists and agnostics, not true Muslims.

"They don't speak for us," Darwish said in response during a question and answer session at the conference. "CAIR represents the best interests of radical Islam."

CAIR casts itself as a mainstream defender of the civil rights of Muslims, but critics point out the group was formed as a spinoff of the Islamic Association for Palestine, identified by two former FBI counter-terrorism chiefs as a front for Hamas in the U.S.

Robert Spencer, director of Jihad Watch and author of "The Truth About Muhammad," told WND he "wholeheartedly" applauds the declaration and wishes success for it and its sponsors.

"I do believe, unfortunately, that the prospects for its widespread acceptance among Muslims today are dim," he said.

Nevertheless, Spencer said the statement "gives Muslims who reject the ideology of Islamic supremacism something around which they can rally, and that may allow for larger movements for genuine Islamic reform than we have seen up to now."

Darwish believes the declaration will have a long life, growing "like wildfire" as "signature after signature" is added to it, but she acknowledged if there will be any change, it won't come soon.

"This is the infancy stage of a revolution in the Muslim world. To achieve our goal is going to take generations," said Darwish, whose father, the head of Egyptian military intelligence in Gaza, was assassinated in 1956 when she was 8 years old.

The declaration calls on the governments of the world to:

* reject Sharia law, fatwa courts, clerical rule, and state-sanctioned religion in all their forms; oppose all penalties for blasphemy and apostasy, in accordance with Article 18 of the Universal Declaration of Human rights;

* eliminate practices, such as female circumcision, honor killing, forced veiling, and forced marriage, that further the oppression of women; protect sexual and gender minorities from persecution and violence;

* reform sectarian education that teaches intolerance and bigotry towards non-Muslims;

* and foster an open public sphere in which all matters may be discussed without coercion or intimidation.

The declaration calls on "academics and thinkers everywhere to embark on a fearless examination of the origins and sources of Islam, and to promulgate the ideals of free scientific and spiritual inquiry through cross-cultural translation, publishing, and the mass media."

"We say to Muslim believers: there is a noble future for Islam as a personal faith, not a political doctrine; to Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Baha’is, and all members of non-Muslim faith communities: we stand with you as free and equal citizens; and to nonbelievers: we defend your unqualified liberty to question and dissent."
WorldNetDaily: Muslims try to change Islamic killing machine