Thread: Democrats...to the rescue

I love TV. The fact that Democrats are now being portrayed as "soldiers" taking back Congress disturbs me a little. Using the Vietnam War as a platform to put Iraq in the same light. As if to say "We are here now and everything will be fine". Having THESE people in charge of a War on Terrorism scares me more than the Terrorists. Just another series in a long line of attempts to use TV, Hollywood, Celebs, etc. to make us feel like we are the most horrible nation on earth. Speaking of Vietnam. I find it interesting that the main political party in power during that war were Democrats.


President Kennedy also increased U.S. military advisers in South Vietnam to 16,000 from the 865 limit set by the Geneva accords. And of course, in his inaugural address he pledged "to bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, and oppose any foe to assure the survival and success of liberty." He talked up counter-insurgency and Green Berets, and told West Point cadets they should be ready for "a new kind of war."

Crisis erupted in 1963, with agitation by a charismatic monk named Thich Tri Quang and repression by Diem and his brother Ngo Dinh Nhu. The notion that the way to win the war was to replace Diem seized intellectuals advising the administration and writing in the press. The famous State Department telegram No. 243 on Aug. 24, 1963, instructed American diplomats in Saigon to "urgently examine all possible alternative leadership and make detailed plans as to how we might bring about Diem's replacement if this should become necessary."
The telegram was drafted over a weekend by Mr. Harriman, Roger Hilsman and Michael Forrestal; President Kennedy signed off from Hyannis after being called from a shower to be briefed in a phone call from Acting Secretary of State George Ball. Vietnamese generals proved reluctant to move, but after weeks of further intrigue in Saigon and indecision in Washington, they mounted a coup on Nov. 1, 1963. They captured Diem and Nhu, and executed them on the morning of Nov. 2.

On Nov. 22, President Kennedy was assassinated in Dallas. Lyndon Johnson, who'd opposed the coup, became president. Ellen Hammer's "A Death in November" reports that the day after the Kennedy funeral, President Johnson pointed to a picture of Diem. "We had a hand in killing him," he told Hubert Humphrey, "Now it's happening here."

However bad the battlefield situation was in 1963, it got worse in 1964. In 1965, President Johnson committed large-scale ground troops. In 1968, the Tet Offensive destroyed the Vietcong guerrillas and the American home front. In 1972, Richard Nixon withdrew the last American troops, mined North Vietnamese harbors, and sent air and naval power that allowed the South Vietnamese army to defeat a major Communist offensive. After the "Christmas bombings," he won the return of U.S. prisoners in the Paris peace accords, and promised South Vietnamese President Nguyen Van Thieu further aid if attacked.

At home, an anti-war Congress first passed the Case-Church amendment banning funds for any U.S. military activities in Indochina, and then passed the War Powers Resolution over a veto. The combination of the Watergate scandal and anti-war passions forced President Nixon to resign on Aug. 9, 1974. In September, Congress slashed financial aid to South Vietnam. After probing attacks drew no U.S. response, the North Vietnamese launched 20 divisions across the border with South Vietnam. On Aug. 30, 1975, the last American was airlifted from the U.S. embassy. Saigon fell not to guerrillas but to tanks.
Over this history, liberals, Democrats and intellectuals refined their attitudes toward the war in Vietnam. Daniel Ellsberg, one-time bombing advocate who leaked the Pentagon Papers, put it succinctly, "I have seen it first as a problem; then as a stalemate; then as a crime." Betrayal is not the crime they had in mind. Instead, they professed to hold the moral high ground, and asserted that American power was illegitimate.

These sentiments led the Democratic Party to electoral debacle in 1968 and 1972. With 45 of 55 Democratic Senators voting against the Gulf War resolution in 1991, they've been able to win the presidency only with Southern governors who had no foreign policy record to connect them to the anti-war movement.

Today such ideas seem more clearly than ever out of step with the nation and events. We've lost some 3,000 lives on American soil, and the public seems willing to let President Bush do what he believes necessary to keep it from happening again. The anti-war movement is dead, but it hangs like an albatross around the neck of the Democratic Party.

Mr. Bartley is editor of The Wall Street Journal. His column appears Mondays in the Journal and on OpinionJournal.com.

SWINDON: I can't believe it! What will History say?
BURGOYNE: History, sir, will tell lies, as usual.

- George Bernard Shaw, The Devil’s Disciple, Act III (1897)

Originally Posted by W.J. Wilczek

SWINDON: I can't believe it! What will History say?
BURGOYNE: History, sir, will tell lies, as usual.

- George Bernard Shaw, The Devil’s Disciple, Act III (1897)

And we are supposed to think Shaw is some great History scholar? And so what?

"History is an account, mostly false, of events, mostly unimportant, which are brought about by rulers, mostly knaves, and soldiers, mostly fools."
- Ambrose Bierce, The Devil’s Dictionary (1911)

Merry Christmas

Originally Posted by W.J. Wilczek

"History is an account, mostly false, of events, mostly unimportant, which are brought about by rulers, mostly knaves, and soldiers, mostly fools."
- Ambrose Bierce, The Devil’s Dictionary (1911)

Hey great more quotes from dead guys. Thanks

"The only thing to be learnt from history is that nobody learns from history."
- William Golding, Close Quarters (1987)

"The only thing to fear.... is another one of your quotes"

We fear what we don’t know, and hate what we do - if only out of contempt for what is familiar. To master one’s antipathies requires courage and conviction. But both must be employed with common sense, for to be bold in the face of unknown danger is not brave but foolhardy, and to persist in despising what is shown to be good is not to be steadfast in one’s convictions but rather mean and stupid.

I feel as though I am conversing with some character from the the 1880s. "for to be bold in the face of unknown danger is not brave but foolhardy.." Nobody talk in this manor today. It is antiquated.