Thread: Obama's Policies Would Redistribute Nearly $1 Trillion in Wealth Every Year

[quote name='Vortex' date='25 September 2009 - 12:18 PM' timestamp='1253906298' post='27474']

Yeah, those damn wars and how they impact the economy, that only matters if the impact is on your family. They shouldn't come in to play when discussing the economy now - it is better to just tell folks they don't understand the economy and don't know how to manage their money right. Got it.[/quote] What, well it is apparent you never lived in a war zone, you do not keep your wealth.

You won't discuss your private insurance payments but you insist the possibilities of taxes being increased will adversely impact your income. Guess we cannot really discuss the concept without your cooperation so please don't bring up any taxes which may be related to health care reform.

do I tell you the specifics of my income? Hell did I ever even mention specifics on my investments?? No, that is none of your business.

Not all of the costs involved in the building, maintenance and care of the nation's highways or bridges comes from gas taxes do they? Or, are you saying that the stimulus money that has been set aside for state highway projects is from gas tax and any discussion of the stimulus package related to higher taxes is a dishonest discussion?

Yes they do, what stimulus money, none has been spent yet has it. They need to leverage it first.

Oh, you have no opinion about the FDA, how about the CDC?

Sure, the FDA is a joke, and the CDC is not needed.

And you don't think we should have a military. I suppose you think all of the citizens exercising their 2nd amendment rights will be able to repel invasions that would inevitably be tried if we did away with our military and shut down our bases. Guess there is no need for the Air Force we won't be manning, planes are so noisy any way. We can always sell off the navy ships to billionaires who want to convert them to glamorous, well armed floating cities. You and your friends that are armed can handle them, can't you?

I never said that, I said we do not need the military we have, please do not put words in my mouth. Most of this part is full of insults, I will end it here for now.

[quote name='michaelr' date='25 September 2009 - 02:24 PM' timestamp='1253906698' post='27482']

What, well it is apparent you never lived in a war zone, you do not keep your wealth.



do I tell you the specifics of my income? Hell did I ever even mention specifics on my investments?? No, that is none of your business.



Yes they do, what stimulus money, none has been spent yet has it. They need to leverage it first.





Sure, the FDA is a joke, and the CDC is not needed.



I never said that, I said we do not need the military we have, please do not put words in my mouth. Most of this part is full of insults, I will end it here for now.

[/quote]

I've posted no insults, it is an insult for you to say I have when I have not so stop it.



You can not honestly complain about your taxes being increased if the increase in taxes results in a cut to the health care costs you now pay. I've always found it comical when people complain about taxes but will pay well over those taxes for services to private corporations. Like with home protection or body guards and the like.



Please do catch my revision in the last paragraph. Again, there are no insults in that paragraph or post, only legitimate questions based on your response. And to quote you "Do I see any use for the military, you mean this...our military, hell fire no." so yes, you did say you see no need for the military and I did not put words in your mouth.



The FDA and many federal agencies were negatively impacted during the Bush administration but many believe they are important. I guess you don't care that the prescriptions you take are not sugar pills or that the organ you may need one day is healthy or that the x-ray equipment or MRIs are safe.



So, the CDC is not needed. Okay, should another anthrax attack happen who cares if steps are taken to try to limit the impact or determine the source. So, without the CDC, if you wanted to take a cruise, would you hire a private group to check out the ship to make sure it is safe? I'm just trying to figure out what out of pocket expenses you are willing to cough up when we do away with the unnecessary services.



Some of the highway stimulus funds have been released. Some states have been facing criticism for their failure to use the money to make the needed repairs. Again, if it is from already determined gas taxes, as you say all highway funds come from, then please don't discuss the higher taxes due to stimulus funds without providing a proper formula taking into account the existing gas taxes.



Oh, and you said your great great grandpa was in the states when he made his discovery, how is that a war zone. Just trying to make sense of your positions.

[quote name='Vortex' date='25 September 2009 - 12:45 PM' timestamp='1253907940' post='27503']

I've posted no insults, it is an insult for you to say I have when I have not so stop it.



You can not honestly complain about your taxes being increased if the increase in taxes results in a cut to the health care costs you now pay. I've always found it comical when people complain about taxes but will pay well over those taxes for services to private corporations. Like with home protection or body guards and the like.



Please do catch my revision in the last paragraph. Again, there are no insults in that paragraph or post, only legitimate questions based on your response. And to quote you "Do I see any use for the military, you mean this...our military, hell fire no." so yes, you did say you see no need for the military and I did not put words in your mouth.



The FDA and many federal agencies were negatively impacted during the Bush administration but many believe they are important. I guess you don't care that the prescriptions you take are not sugar pills or that the organ you may need one day is healthy or that the x-ray equipment or MRIs are safe.



So, the CDC is not needed. Okay, should another anthrax attack happen who cares if steps are taken to try to limit the impact or determine the source. So, without the CDC, if you wanted to take a cruise, would you hire a private group to check out the ship to make sure it is safe? I'm just trying to figure out what out of pocket expenses you are willing to cough up when we do away with the unnecessary services.



Some of the highway stimulus funds have been released. Some states have been facing criticism for their failure to use the money to make the needed repairs. Again, if it is from already determined gas taxes, as you say all highway funds come from, then please don't discuss the higher taxes due to stimulus funds without providing a proper formula taking into account the existing gas taxes.

[/quote]

I will leave the thread before I help turn it into a rant, I said what I said and meant it.



According to what I have read, I will pay more for health care, and have less choices. I do not want anything from this government, I want to be left alone. I do not want your money, I do not want to give you mine, and I sure as hell do not want the bureaucracy to trade our money!



Umm, that anthrax attack was an inside job, no doubt about it. Any who denies 911 was, should study the anthrax attack, it was 911 part two after all. Umm, may get sick on cruise ships all the time, should we all stop and thank the CDC???



I can take care of myself, and would be more apt if I did not have to take care of the government...



Imagine this if you will....We get to pay for the bailouts, the banks get the money for free, then they loan it to some schmuck, they buy a house, the banks leverages that house 70:1 and then charges the buyer interest!!! You except this insanity as sanity. You make excuses for it. Fuck the government and their way, fuck their owners....and that ain't you.



Sorry where was I..



The states have to match the funds, if they can't then they do not get the funds and the funds are returned to the administration....see the scam, see it work, pay for the scam!!! Come on, be a good girl and pay......

[quote name='michaelr' date='25 September 2009 - 02:57 PM' timestamp='1253908644' post='27508']

I will leave the thread before I help turn it into a rant, I said what I said and meant it.[/quote]Then please, stop posting stuff like this in the thread and stick to the issues.



[quote name='michaelr' date='25 September 2009 - 02:57 PM' timestamp='1253908644' post='27508']According to what I have read, I will pay more for health care, and have less choices. I do not want anything from this government, I want to be left alone. I do not want your money, I do not want to give you mine, and I sure as hell do not want the bureaucracy to trade our money!



Umm, that anthrax attack was an inside job, no doubt about it. Any who denies 911 was, should study the anthrax attack, it was 911 part two after all. Umm, may get sick on cruise ships all the time, should we all stop and thank the CDC???



I can take care of myself, and would be more apt if I did not have to take care of the government...



Imagine this if you will....We get to pay for the bailouts, the banks get the money for free, then they loan it to some schmuck, they buy a house, the banks leverages that house 70:1 and then charges the buyer interest!!! You except this insanity as sanity. You make excuses for it. Fuck the government and their way, fuck their owners....and that ain't you.



Sorry where was I..



The states have to match the funds, if they can't then they do not get the funds and the funds are returned to the administration....see the scam, see it work, pay for the scam!!! Come on, be a good girl and pay......

[/quote]

What have you read? Do you have links? Would that be the same sources that created the death panel myths? Or maybe they were some of Richard Berman front corps. http://www.bermanexposed.org/

http://www.havenworks.com/people/a-z...-richard-rick/



The plan is to make health care affordable not to control the doctors or your care. You may want to check out a few of the sites that doctors have created to support health care reform like this one. http://www.madashelldoctors.com/



Did your union benefits pay all of your medical or did you get some workers comp consideration? When you paid your union dues you were paying a private tax, you do realize that, don't you?



I know what you don't want, you don't want to be taxed, you want to pay your way through life and as you continue to remind us, you can afford to do so. But the USA is a republic where the people choose representatives who, in turn, make policy decisions on their behalf - on behalf of the majority, not the wealthiest. What you want alone is not what matters. Legislation that lets you keep your money is not what is in the best interest of the entire nation.



You don't take care of the government, it provides you safety and security, even if you don't want to admit it does. You utilize government programs on a daily basis and you don't even realize it. Good thing your scripts aren't sugar pills. The USDA has done a pretty decent job of keeping mad cow disease at a low.



If, as you claim, the anthrax attacks were inside jobs, the CDC contained the attacks. Do you think the government agency that carried out the covert attack on the home land told the CDC in advance that they were violating the law and to be ready?



The USA is realizing a profit from the bank bailouts. You do know that, don't you?



Yes, the states have to match the funds. Just imagine if they didn't. The city of Philadelphia public library system has said that it will have to close the libraries, shut the doors and lay off all of its employees if the state of Pennsylvania does not fund it as requested. Over 60 million dollars in stimulus money has been set aside to build new library facilities and rebuild, improve and make green existing library buildings. If Pennsylvania cannot fund the library, cannot match the funds, then do you think they should still get that money? That is no scam, it is good fiscal policy, it is good government.



The States do not enjoy the autonomy that is provided for in the Constitution because they rely so heavily on federal funds. If you want state's rights, then get your state to stop relying on federal money.



BTW, do you think that all roadways, highways, bridges, etc, should be converted to toll roads/bridges and managed by private corporations?

[quote name='Vortex' date='25 September 2009 - 01:52 PM' timestamp='1253911947' post='27528']

Then please, stop posting stuff like this in the thread and stick to the issues.





What have you read? Do you have links? Would that be the same sources that created the death panel myths? Or maybe they were some of Richard Berman front corps. http://www.bermanexposed.org/

http://www.havenworks.com/people/a-z...-richard-rick/[/quote] there is a thread on the board that show the known costs, and I would pay more than I am. You keep being rude OK, hell I have no feelings.

The plan is to make health care affordable not to control the doctors or your care. You may want to check out a few of the sites that doctors have created to support health care reform like this one. http://www.madashelldoctors.com/



Did your union benefits pay all of your medical or did you get some workers comp consideration? When you paid your union dues you were paying a private tax, you do realize that, don't you?

It was paid by the union.

I know what you don't want, you don't want to be taxed, you want to pay your way through life and as you continue to remind us, you can afford to do so. But the USA is a republic where the people choose representatives who, in turn, make policy decisions on their behalf - on behalf of the majority, not the wealthiest. What you want alone is not what matters. Legislation that lets you keep your money is not what is in the best interest of the entire nation.

Fine, I am an advocate of states rights, lets go that route.

You don't take care of the government, it provides you safety and security, even if you don't want to admit it does. You utilize government programs on a daily basis and you don't even realize it. Good thing your scripts aren't sugar pills. The USDA has done a pretty decent job of keeping mad cow disease at a low.

They provide sfety, the bastards wont even lock the back door. The USDA and their policies allowed for the creation of Mad Cow!! I don't take scripts, that would be just stupid, I would be hooked.

If, as you claim, the anthrax attacks were inside jobs, the CDC contained the attacks. Do you think the government agency that carried out the covert attack on the home land told the CDC in advance that they were violating the law and to be ready?

I dunno, I do know the White House, and I believe the entire congress was on Cipro for 30 days before 911.

The USA is realizing a profit from the bank bailouts. You do know that, don't you?

Fascism. The gov is, that is what they plan of replacing taxes with, unemployment will continue to climb, and the tax base will continue to sink. I have been ranting about this for a long time. But you know this, you paid for it, but do not expect any benefits from your investment....unless you benefit from wars and a police state.

Yes, the states have to match the funds. Just imagine if they didn't. The city of Philadelphia public library system has said that it will have to close the libraries, shut the doors and lay off all of its employees if the state of Pennsylvania does not fund it as requested. Over 60 million dollars in stimulus money has been set aside to build new library facilities and rebuild, improve and make green existing library buildings. If Pennsylvania cannot fund the library, cannot match the funds, then do you think they should still get that money? That is no scam, it is good fiscal policy, it is good government.

The government knows they can't match the funds, the states are going broke, there is the scam!!

The States do not enjoy the autonomy that is provided for in the Constitution because they rely so heavily on federal funds. If you want state's rights, then get your state to stop relying on federal money.

I am in favor of having the states discontinue payments to the feds and the feds will not have to go through the trouble of giving some back.

BTW, do you think that all roadways, highways, bridges, etc, should be converted to toll roads/bridges and managed by private corporations?

Hell no, and I have been railing against that, those roads are tax paid. Saying that, the Highway Dept can jump off a cliff, we do not need them, the states could and should do the job, and think of the savings.

[quote name='michaelr' date='25 September 2009 - 05:22 PM' timestamp='1253917347' post='27574']

there is a thread on the board that show the known costs, and I would pay more than I am.

You keep being rude OK, hell I have no feelings.

It was paid by the union.



Fine, I am an advocate of states rights, lets go that route.



They provide sfety, the bastards wont even lock the back door. The USDA and their policies allowed for the creation of Mad Cow!! I don't take scripts, that would be just stupid, I would be hooked.





I dunno, I do know the White House, and I believe the entire congress was on Cipro for 30 days before 911.



Fascism. The gov is, that is what they plan of replacing taxes with, unemployment will continue to climb, and the tax base will continue to sink. I have been ranting about this for a long time. But you know this, you paid for it, but do not expect any benefits from your investment....unless you benefit from wars and a police state.



The government knows they can't match the funds, the states are going broke, there is the scam!!



I am in favor of having the states discontinue payments to the feds and the feds will not have to go through the trouble of giving some back.



Hell no, and I have been railing against that, those roads are tax paid. Saying that, the Highway Dept can jump off a cliff, we do not need them, the states could and should do the job, and think of the savings.[/quote]

Please stick to the issues.



Please provide a link to the thread you reference with the numbers.



You paid union dues, you paid a private tax, from your earned profits, to get that care, it wasn't free. Nothing is free, you just decided to pay a tax on your income to a union rather than to the government. It seems to have worked, group insurance, yes? The union allowed you to be part of a group so that the health insurance costs could be affordable, what a benefit for you with your ailments.



We are a representative system, you vote for the state citizens to represent you in the national forum. We are that way. You just don't like it that they aren't doing things your way. Guess you need to start focusing on your local elections a bit more.



I have no idea what you mean by "the bastards wont even lock the back door." Is this about your strong disdain for immigrants again? Please provide a link to something (besides Alex Jones' prisonplanet) that shows that the policies of the USDA allowed for the creation of mad cow. And you never took a script, even after all of your surgeries? Wow, amazing.



Again, a source to your allegations regarding congress on cipro would be useful. And no, nothing from prisonplanet or Alex Jones is acceptable.



Not fascism. Good business. If you loan money and are having that loan paid back plus interest on that loan, that is good business. They are supplementing the budget with the profits to subsidize government needs until the tax base has been restored. They are trying to keep any tax increase to a minimal. As a fiscal conservative, you should appreciate the good business equals good government concept. I think if you look at the economy after the crash, during the great depression, weren't taxes raised beyond what is proposed now? Weren't personal exemptions reduced and earned income credits eliminated. Didn't they double corporate taxes and increase estate taxes? Do you think that the economy will rebound on its very own? It is anticipated that unemployment will continue to climb or stay at a constant high until 2011, that is not a result of the government's taxes but because of the bad economy and the greed of corporate profiteers. You know, the greedy folks that want all their money for themselves.



When discussing things with me you really don't need to try to avoid the scare tactics that have impressed you. They don't work on me. I don't foresee a police state and nothing I have read on the internet that warns of same has scared me into thinking otherwise (including your posts). There are no FEMA gulags.



Reality tells us that we cannot just pull out of Iraq or Afghanistan. I wish we could. There is a part of me that is an isolationist. We just need to tend to the needs of the citizens and ignore the rest of the world. Then along comes news of the Iranian nuclear efforts, then there are reminders of 9/11 and I know, as a realist, that life is not as simple as I would like it to be. The pull out of Iraq will happen, Afghanistan, not so sure. I hope it happens before my youngest nieces and nephews are of draft age. I will continue to protest the wars. The powers that be (both congress and the president) need to know that the citizens want our troops home and safe. We want peace.



I think the quote from Barlett on West Wing more than adequately responds to your states' right position. Yes, the show was fiction, but the answer is based on fact and is easy to understand. It matches your fictional ideals with realistic answers to show how simple and wrong your ideas are.

Gov. Ritchie: My view of this is simple: we don't need a Federal Department of Education telling us our children have to learn Esperanto, they have to learn Eskimo poetry. Let the states decide, let the communities decide on health care, on education, on lower taxes, not higher taxes. Now, he's going to throw a big word at you - "unfunded mandate." He's going to say if Washington lets the states do it, it's an unfunded mandate. But what he doesn't like is the federal government losing power. But I call it the ingenuity of the American people.



Moderator: President Bartlet, you have 60 seconds for a question and an answer.



Bartlet: Well, first of all, let's clear up a couple of things. "Unfunded mandate" is two words, not one big word. There are times when we're fifty states and there are times when we're one country, and have national needs. And the way I know this is that Florida didn't fight Germany in World War II or establish civil rights. You think states should do the governing wall-to-wall. That's a perfectly valid opinion. But your state of Florida got $12.6 billion in federal money last year - from Nebraskans, and Virginians, and New Yorkers, and Alaskans, with their Eskimo poetry. 12.6 out of a state budget of $50 billion. Now, I'm supposed to be using this time for a question, so here it is: Can we have it back, please?

About 2 minutes in if you want to watch the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIy0AP1Sbrk



So, you say you "are in favor of the states discontinuing payments to the feds and the feds will not have to go through the trouble of giving some back." You do realize the states do not pay anything to the feds, the citizens of the states do when they pay federal taxes, don't you?



So should the states keep those taxes and in turn have to pay for the federal resources they use? How much do you think the feds should charge for the FBI services or the US Corp of Engineers or the US Forestry service or NASA or NOAA? When natural disasters occur in the states and the citizens can barely scratch out a living, let alone pay taxes, how would you propose they fund the rebuilds?



Relative to the highways and no privately operated toll roads or bridges, you do realize that the taxes that paid for these roads were paid by taxes collected years ago. The maintenance of the roads is the constant, the rebuilding of the infrastructure, the retopping, the filling in of pot holes, that is what taxes are needed for today. The government would still own the roads, they would just let the private corps manage them and collect their tolls. No need to worry about additional taxes and the private corps have another avenue to make a profit. The States are the ones that do the highway work as it is today. Have you ever seen a Federal Highway Department truck on the side of the road doing the paving? Aren't the taxes raised through the gas taxes allocated to the states to do the work on the highways?



So please, keep your comments to the issues and provide me the links to back up your claims, if you can.

Your post is too long winded for me, i will touch on a few things.



No, it is fascism.



The potholes are covered in gas taxes.



The numbers were in the thread I alluded to.



Representative system, we have dictatorship.



Unemployment and free trade go hand in hand. Bailing out the banks wont help. The stupid stimulus will not help.

So should the states keep those taxes and in turn have to pay for the federal resources they use? How much do you think the feds should charge for the FBI services or the US Corp of Engineers or the US Forestry service or NASA or NOAA? When natural disasters occur in the states and the citizens can barely scratch out a living, let alone pay taxes, how would you propose they fund the rebuilds?

Man I do not know what your peoples problem is. These agencies are unnecessary.



Not only could we end the wars...err illegal occupations, but it is the only way to bring security to the region.



Your all over the place, yet you tell me to stick to the issues. Have fun.