Thread: Rich people pay all the taxes

The vid wont run at work.....so I cant watch atm.

But to the best of my knowledge the 16th Amendment entitled Congress to levy taxes on individual income without apportionment, abnd defined clearly the Pollock ruling. Past that, I thought the biggest argument was that the Amendment wasnt ratified because of some dispute about whether or not Ohio was properly a state...but the courts had rejected these arguments time and again.

Or did I miss something?

Slight of hand manuvers dont work too well if the source of truth is openly available.

No disrespect, but I think the sleight-of-hand manuevers are being pulled by somebody other than Uncle Sam on this one.

First of all, money isn't real, ever. Even if it's gold. What makes gold anymore real than a dollar bill? You can't eat it. It won't keep you warm.

The only thing that makes any money "real" is the confidence people have in it. This is not a secret, and it isn't a conspiracy. It's fundamental economics. Money is an abstract concept.

If the economy is growing quickly, you can print a lot of money, because that money represents something that is perceived as real value in the economy. No problem, no inflation, no interest rate hikes. It is similar to the price of a share of stock. You can pay $2 or you can pay $20,000 for a share of stock. It isn't worth anything in terms of the gold standard you mentioned. But obviously it has a value, which is determined entirely by the perception people have of that stock.

The abstract nature of the national and world economies is not a conspiracy. It's an amazing blending of human ingenuity and natural forces. It is one of the most crucial supports of modern civilization. Without an abstract economy, the most advanced of us would still be herding goats.

Not that there's anything wrong with herding goats.

For Oberdan's #1. The deficit is created by the government spending money on things like roads and things like the War in Iraq. The income tax indirectly pays for these things.

On a side note...

The internet is one of the hardest things to regulate. Specifically because it can be based out of many different countries. The only way to limit the internet is to limit the Internet Service Providers. Also, in the future, those who can afford it will have direct Sat to Sat link from any location, though any isp. This is why the RIAA is having so much trouble. The minute they shut one down, another opens up. Like as things like Freenet grow, peer to peer connections are growing more private, yet public at the same time. The internet is not like cable television where there are lines and towers on the land of the United States that can be controlled. The internet is completely electronic and increasingly wireless. Also it is almost completly owned and operated by many corporations.

Originally Posted by Neue Horizonte

97% of the wealth in this country is in the hands of less than 5% of the population; they have all the money. dumbass

Not after taxes, dumbass.

They also worked to get it, unearned income is taxed like hell.

Splansing,

I can't be giving classes through posts, but if I was to sum it up all in one paragraph....

Your personal view on the sources, quality and uses of money and why we even use money on our planet for equality of trade are not realistic nor I fear, fully understood by you. What makes money valuable is rarity. The more rare, the more value. That value can be measured and applied in equivalent terms for other things. Gold is rare. Rocks are not. Gold is only one of several rare metals the monetary value is based on. You cannot use rocks because they are everywhere. Inflation would be so bad, you would need several mountains of rocks to eventually trade for something small, like a new shirt. Our source values, Platinum, Gold, Nickel, Silver and Copper, are stored by international banks, and a dollar bill, yen, dinar, any paper money, is a reciet, proof that the rare metal actually exists. If it wasn't rare, there could be no applied value.

If this escapes you in any way, there is nothing more that can be said to help you understand how value is measured and applied to the system of barter,

When Governments start printing paper money with no backing, they are contributing to inflation that can and will affect everyone. It's like the rocks thing. The more of it that is available, the less something is worth. So it will take more to equalize the purchasing power of the rare metals backing it up.

Look at money in Britian. Measured in pounds, they are talking about pounds of gold. Because there is far more paper money printed than the actual gold, they have to pay 7 or 8 pounds per gallon of gas. If it was actually real gold, well, they would be paying enough for a large house and two new cars for that gallon of gas.

US Dollars are not immune. If I had an ounce of gold, to break off 1 dollar worth would be a small, thin flake too hard to handle. The old standard was 16 dollars per ounce, but because so much is printed up and saturating the economy, it takes 800+ dollars now for the same ounce.

I'm trying to get you and others to see that is how they can control a country through it's money, it's Gold Reserve. By getting inflation to add a higher value to the same amount of gold (The planet isn't making anymore gold you know) those who have the gold can aquire far more goods and services for less of the real, material money.

People like you and I are being ...used... to inflate the value for the Federal Reserve, thereby increasing their overall value. It doesn't matter if you think it's a state of mind or not. While one used to be able to pay the doctor's bill with two chickens and a gallon of fresh milk in our frontier days, inflation made darn well sure, thanks to the Fed, that you would need a truckload of chickens and a platoon of milking cows to meet half a doctor's bill today. If you could get him/her to accept it like that.

Neue Horizonte,

May want to read my entire number one. It's used to pay the interest of the Federal Deficit. The American Tax Payer, if broken down using a little math, is paying 40 Million per hour to the Federal Reserve, and it's only on the interest. We haven't been able to touch the principle for a long time.

The taxs are not being apportioned as the US Constitution mandates. Our wages are taxed not just annually. They are taxed every payday. After you pay a tax on your paycheck, they tax it ... again... for another amount due by April 15th. If you put your all ready taxed money into a savings account, and earn 5% on it through a credit union, that 5% is taxed. So you are paying taxes on a gain from twice taxed money.

It was never intended to be like that. Before the Federal Reserve was created, and Congress had control of our own money, indpendant wealth and the buying power of our dollar was very strong. If Congress set a terrible interest rate, their Constituents made them responsible by threatening not to re-elect them.

Now, today, so you and I, the People, have no power or say over how our money is handled and profitted off of. The Federal Reserve is not elected nor appointed. The President can submit a few names for thier Chairman, and that's it.

There is no accountability in our tax system because of that, among things, and when they can take your bank account, when they can garnish your wages, when they can set a national tax system that takes up to 52% of our annual income through city, state and federal tax tables which require you to work harder and longer hours to break even, and you can't say or do squat about it... how is that NOT considered control over our country?

Thanks for the attitude.

With no confidence in the value of a dollar, it wouldn't matter if there was only one of them. If nobody is going to honor it because nobody has any confidence in the government and economy behind it, it's worthless. Value is about perception.

I fully understand that, within that, interest rates essentially regulate the supply of money, which raises or lowers its perceived value relative to products.

As for your theory that this is all part of some conspiracy, the fact is that our country could not exist as the booming juggernaut of an economy that it is without our totally abstract economic system. Sure, the Fed has a lot of control over how hot the economy runs. Somebody has to. If you don't like it, why don't you go get involved and get yourself on the board? Obviously, you have the kind of economic expertise they're looking for. Sounds like you'd be perfect for the job of regulating an endlessly complex abstract economy. You could sneer at non-board members and make sarcastic comments about how you don't have time to explain the complexities of the economy to those with such small minds. And they'd wander off, disoriented by their awe and respect for you.

True that Splan... I was in the middle of a 2nd mortgage to consolidate and the interest rates jumped 2% because of the elections (put on hold). The future is unstable with new changes to government. Confidence has alot to do with economy.... ~Inky

Originally Posted by Oberdan

Splansing,

I can't be giving classes through posts, but if I was to sum it up all in one paragraph....

Your personal view on the sources, quality and uses of money and why we even use money on our planet for equality of trade are not realistic nor I fear, fully understood by you. What makes money valuable is rarity. The more rare, the more value. That value can be measured and applied in equivalent terms for other things. Gold is rare. Rocks are not. Gold is only one of several rare metals the monetary value is based on. You cannot use rocks because they are everywhere. Inflation would be so bad, you would need several mountains of rocks to eventually trade for something small, like a new shirt. Our source values, Platinum, Gold, Nickel, Silver and Copper, are stored by international banks, and a dollar bill, yen, dinar, any paper money, is a reciet, proof that the rare metal actually exists. If it wasn't rare, there could be no applied value.

If this escapes you in any way, there is nothing more that can be said to help you understand how value is measured and applied to the system of barter,

When Governments start printing paper money with no backing, they are contributing to inflation that can and will affect everyone. It's like the rocks thing. The more of it that is available, the less something is worth. So it will take more to equalize the purchasing power of the rare metals backing it up.

Look at money in Britian. Measured in pounds, they are talking about pounds of gold. Because there is far more paper money printed than the actual gold, they have to pay 7 or 8 pounds per gallon of gas. If it was actually real gold, well, they would be paying enough for a large house and two new cars for that gallon of gas.

US Dollars are not immune. If I had an ounce of gold, to break off 1 dollar worth would be a small, thin flake too hard to handle. The old standard was 16 dollars per ounce, but because so much is printed up and saturating the economy, it takes 800+ dollars now for the same ounce.

I'm trying to get you and others to see that is how they can control a country through it's money, it's Gold Reserve. By getting inflation to add a higher value to the same amount of gold (The planet isn't making anymore gold you know) those who have the gold can aquire far more goods and services for less of the real, material money.

People like you and I are being ...used... to inflate the value for the Federal Reserve, thereby increasing their overall value. It doesn't matter if you think it's a state of mind or not. While one used to be able to pay the doctor's bill with two chickens and a gallon of fresh milk in our frontier days, inflation made darn well sure, thanks to the Fed, that you would need a truckload of chickens and a platoon of milking cows to meet half a doctor's bill today. If you could get him/her to accept it like that.

Neue Horizonte,

May want to read my entire number one. It's used to pay the interest of the Federal Deficit. The American Tax Payer, if broken down using a little math, is paying 40 Million per hour to the Federal Reserve, and it's only on the interest. We haven't been able to touch the principle for a long time.

The taxs are not being apportioned as the US Constitution mandates. Our wages are taxed not just annually. They are taxed every payday. After you pay a tax on your paycheck, they tax it ... again... for another amount due by April 15th. If you put your all ready taxed money into a savings account, and earn 5% on it through a credit union, that 5% is taxed. So you are paying taxes on a gain from twice taxed money.

It was never intended to be like that. Before the Federal Reserve was created, and Congress had control of our own money, indpendant wealth and the buying power of our dollar was very strong. If Congress set a terrible interest rate, their Constituents made them responsible by threatening not to re-elect them.

Now, today, so you and I, the People, have no power or say over how our money is handled and profitted off of. The Federal Reserve is not elected nor appointed. The President can submit a few names for thier Chairman, and that's it.

There is no accountability in our tax system because of that, among things, and when they can take your bank account, when they can garnish your wages, when they can set a national tax system that takes up to 52% of our annual income through city, state and federal tax tables which require you to work harder and longer hours to break even, and you can't say or do squat about it... how is that NOT considered control over our country?

You're not following Austrian economics are you?

Here's a hint, it's bullshit.

Gold and paper money are essentially the same, the only difference is that gold is

a. Denser
and
b. Too rare

There's simply not enough gold to sustain the world economy.