Thread: Obama to target tax fairness in speech

Originally Posted by Rasselas

And the beautiful thing about that idea is, we're already planning that--all we need is to do nothing.

And that would work for me. (would have worked 2 years ago also, when they were extended in 2010.)

But suspect that there is little chance that Obama and/or the Democrats can allow the Bush Tax Cuts to simply expire. That would be sharing the increase burden across all income levels. Not politically savvy. The effort will be to pare off only the wealthy for the higher rates.

Originally Posted by Rasselas

You forget the payroll tax, which wealthy people don't pay. What do those numbers look like when you ad in that federal tax?

Who told you wealthy people don't pay payroll taxes. They pay it on their earned income, double what you pay if they are self employed which most are, and they pay it on their employees.

Who doesn't pay FICA taxes, the low income earners, their FICA taxes are reimbursed to them through the EITC. They in fact MAKE money off the tax system.

Liberals are slipperier than pigs in shit when it comes to selectively ignoring facts.

Originally Posted by Devil505

Go back to the exact same rates that were in effect under Bill Clinton. (look them up)

Agree. Including the payroll tax rate.

Originally Posted by Bluesguy

Who told you wealthy people don't pay payroll taxes. They pay it on their earned income, double what you pay if they are self employed which most are, and they pay it on their employees.

Who doesn't pay FICA taxes, the low income earners, their FICA taxes are reimbursed to them through the EITC. They in fact MAKE money off the tax system.

The payroll tax only goes up to $109K of income. After that, nothing. (And the taxes employers pay are a required part of compensation, so they'd pay that 'double' money even if they employed someone else, so that's hardly a valid point.) Adding the amount of the payroll tax (they don't call it FICA anymore) to all income earned is far more ambitious than anything Dems have suggested. Taxing capital gains like other income would also be more far-reaching than anything Dems would suggest.

Your stats are about income taxes only. Since those aren't the only federal taxes people pay, and since the wealthy are specifically excused from paying the payroll tax on most of their income, your numbers reflect only that portion of reality you choose to look at.

Originally Posted by pragmatic

Agree. Including the payroll tax rate.

So you prefer the highest earners paying less taxes both in actual dollars and as a percentage of all taxes the the lowest earners having their tax obligation reestablished?

Originally Posted by Rasselas

The payroll tax only goes up to $109K of income.

DUH, so what?

After that, nothing.

So what?

(And the taxes employers pay are a required part of compensation, so they'd pay that 'double' money even if they employed someone else, so that's hardly a valid point.)

As I pointed out. The self employed pay ALL of their FICA tax AND pay the employer share of those they employ. To say the highest earners don't pay into the system if absurd.

Adding the amount of the payroll tax (they don't call it FICA anymore) to all income earned is far more ambitious than anything Dems have suggested.

And then let's go the more you pay in the more you get out just like any other retirement system.

Taxing capital gains like other income would also be more far-reaching than anything Dems would suggest.

It would reduce the amount of revenue collected as it has historical done in the past.

Your stats are about income taxes only. Since those aren't the only federal taxes people pay, and since the wealthy are specifically excused from paying the payroll tax on most of their income, your numbers reflect only that portion of reality you choose to look at.

Yes since that is what Obama was talking about, but her The Tax Foundation - Summary of 2009 Federal Individual Income Tax Data go look at it anyway you want.

Originally Posted by Bluesguy

DUH, so what?



So what?

So anyone paying payroll taxes actually has a tax 7.5 higher than is accounted for in your stats. If Romney had to pay payroll tax the way most people do, his tax obligation would jump from 13% to 20%. That's a lot of tax money.

As I pointed out. The self employed pay ALL of their FICA tax AND pay the employer share of those they employ. To say the highest earners don't pay into the system if absurd.

That's a cost of compensation. There are lots of costs to employ someone beyond their wages, and the cost is no different for an employer if he pays another employee or himself. This is a specious argument.

And then let's go the more you pay in the more you get out just like any other retirement system.

That would make sense if there were an actual separation between the two pots of money, but that hasn't been true since the Reagan administration.

It would reduce the amount of revenue collected as it has historical done in the past.

The effect you mention here is temporary, and it works only when the differences in tax rates (before and after) are very high.

Yes since that is what Obama was talking about, but her The Tax Foundation - Summary of 2009 Federal Individual Income Tax Data go look at it anyway you want.

Your link specifically avoids the question I'm asking.

Originally Posted by Barney Fife

I know I'm new here, but I have to put in my 3 cents worth.

I think anyone making over half a million should pay 80% taxes so govt can use that money to create jobs.

More government jobs? Just what we need, take the money out of the private sector and create more government workers.............