Thread: Patients forced to live in agony after NHS refuses to pay for painkilling injections

[quote name='michaelr' date='07 August 2009 - 10:35 AM' timestamp='1249655700' post='1137']

I just pay for it, I think the last one was only $300.00.

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So it's not an apples to apples comparison.

BTW, you'd still be able to pay for it under the healthcare reform.

Next.

[quote name='Dr.Knuckles' date='10 August 2009 - 05:24 PM' timestamp='1249939479' post='2781']

You said that universal health care would be expensive and I pointed out that that was a lie, seeing as the US's private system is vastly... VASTLY... more expensive than any of the hundreds of universal systems worldwide. No response and then "this is going to be expensive"



Either you need new glasses or your reading comprehension needs work or you are being deliberately dishonest.



The 'socialised' medicine fear mongering isn't the reality. You can have any private medical service you want in Britain, or Canada, or New Zealand or wherever else. It's not "goverment takes control of the industry" its economics of scale, by putting everyone into one centrally managed insurance system that is mandatory to pay into for every single citizen you avoid people skipping out on paying and then getting treatment and you CUT the cost drastically. CUT the cost. Cheaper. Less expensive. Less money. Not as much money. Less. Cheaper. Less money. Less money. Lower costs. Costs less. Less cost. Costs you less. Not as much money.



If the ministry, in their wisdom, determines that a certain service is not vaild, say something that is not necessary but is really expensive and doctors can convince people they need it because it would make those doctors tonnes of money and who's going to argue because people are in pain and scared and just want to be well and don't have medical degrees so they take their doctor's word for it... those kinds of treatments... then you can pay for that out of pocket if you so desire.



Something like 80% of meeical services in Canada are private. It's insurance that is public. Auto insurance is public in my Province too... that doesn't mean Honda has been privatised. It's insurance, not services.





PS.



LESS money. Costs less. Not as much. A smaller amount of moolah.......

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Doc,



You're never going to convince the right this is a good idea. They have been sold a bill of goods, and firmly believe that whatever is good for the private sector is good for them. If health care costs are more expensive, then that must be a good thing... right? I mean it keeps riffraff, like junkies and welfare mothers from getting free stuff. Besides, if the US switches to a Canadian model (something that's not on the table) we will instantly be transformed into ultra-polite, touk wearing people who don't feel the need to keep 192 different guns under the bed just in case the FBI storms their bunker...erm home. This is a very real threat to the arms industry AND to bunker manufacturers everywhere.



What's important is to keep the government out of healthcare, even though they're already intimately involved in its regulation and administration.

Well thanks for saying it outloud Johnlocke. And I think you hit the nail on the head there in that there is no system worldwide that is similar to what the Dems are pushing in the US. The Canadian system which is old fashioned, the British which is bipolar, the New Zealand/Scandinavian/Taiwan one which is pretty good, or the French/German which is also pretty good... none of these are models for what Obama is selling. He's said it a million times and I've never heard anyone serious say any different. America simply is not discussing anything similar to what other countries have.



Nor should they - make it fit your own population. What works in Sweden Norway Iceland and Canada works because were are vast wildernesses with tiny pockets of large urban cities where 80% of the population lives. The US is not comparable to this model. That's why noone has yet suggested US reform be based on those models.



Well I have... but I'm not an expert.

[quote name='michaelr' date='10 August 2009 - 04:55 PM' timestamp='1249916135' post='2497']

I thought the UK has socialized medicine, what you get that and pay as well? Man this is going to be expensive.

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Most healthcare in the UK is socialised. It's not an insurance-based system like Canada or most of Europe, it's just a government-funded health service which provides care free at the point of need to anyone (although some things, like dentistry and most prescriptions, are subsidised rather than free except for certain low-income categories). The NHS does not provide everything, however, because there are limits to how much the public purse can spend, so case-by-case decisions have to be made on what should and shouldn't be covered. There are no laws against private health providers, so people use these for additional services not on the NHS; to avoid waiting lists for services they could get on the NHS or because they think they can get a higher quality of care.



Despite all this, Britons spend less per capita on healthcare than Americans, and the British government spends less per capita on healthcare than the American government. It's cheaper, not more expensive.

Sorry I didn't catch that.... did you say it was cheaper?



Oh you DID?



Thanks. The old ears are starting to go.

[quote name='Dr.Knuckles' date='14 August 2009 - 12:06 AM' timestamp='1250201205' post='4785']

Sorry I didn't catch that.... did you say it was cheaper?



Oh you DID?



Thanks. The old ears are starting to go.

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Like insurance adverts that repeat the company name and phone number 30 or 40 times in one brief clip, I'm hoping repetition will finally drive the message home.

Now hold on, I'm still confused. Which system of mandatory insurance was it that gave people cheaper health care than the private model?



ALL of them? Really? They're all cheaper? All of them?



Wow. I guess that's because when it's not mandatory then a bunch of people don't have it, don't pay anything, and then still get emergency services. All on the dime of the insured.



Well if that's the case then why isn't car insurance mandatory?



Oh shit! It is?