The Taxation Thread

[Morgan]

I wished to make this thread to talk just about taxation. It's mentioned a lot in other threads, so I decided to make a single thread about the issue.

The issue at hand is the best method by which to tax the public for revenue needed for government purposes.

There are several forms of taxation proposed including progressive income taxation as the most prominent, flat income taxation, and national consumption taxes, like the Fairtax which has its possible faults and benefits

Now, it's rather noticeable that the current tax system needs reform, but the argument is how best to reform the system. I have my own idea that forms itself around our current taxation apparatus. It's meant to simplify the current tax system and make it streamlined and easy to understand and to see where everything falls.

1. All Medicare, SS, Payroll, Inheritance, Estate, Gift, AMT Taxes Eliminated

2. Personal Income Tax
Less Than $25,000 = 0%
$25,001 - 50,000 = 5%
$50,001 - 75,000 = 10%
$75,001 - 100,000 = 15%
$100,001 - 250,000 = 20%
$250,001 - 500,000 = 25%
$500,001 - 750,000 = 30%
$750,001 - 1,000,000 = 35%
$1,000,001 - 2,500,000 = 40%
$2,500,001 - 5,000,000 = 45%
$5,000,001 - 7,500,000 = 50%
$7,500,001 - 10,000,000 = 55%
$10,000,001 And Up = 60%
- All Incomes Treated as Single Income (Married Incomes Treated as Single Incomes)
- Only Tax Credit (First 2 Children = 2.5% Tax Decrease Each)

3. Corporate Income Tax (On Revenue)
Less Than $100,000 = 0%
$100,001 - 500,000 = 5%
$500,001 - 1,000,000 = 10%
$1,000,001 - 5,000,000 = 15%
$5,000,001 - 10,000,000 = 20%
$10,000,001 - 50,000,000 = 25%
$50,000,001 - 100,000,000 = 30%
$100,000,001 - 500,000,000 = 35%
$500,000,001 - 1,000,000,000 = 40%
$1,000,000,001 And Up = 45%
- Unincorporated Businesses Remain Untaxed
- Only Tax Credit (For Locating In United States = 2.5% Tax Decrease)
- No Subsidies

4. Tariff (Import Tax)
- 5% Flat Rate

5. Excise Tax
- 5% Flat Rate
- Specified Products (Alcohol, Tobacco, Soft Drinks, Fast Food, Juice Drinks, Marijuana, etc.)

6. Pollutant Tax
- 5% On Revenue For Each Surpassed Break
- Breaks For Each Pollutant Designated by EPA

[Morgan]

Other possible taxation methods?

Critique of the one provided? Additions or Modifications?

[MajikMyst]

I wished to make this thread to talk just about taxation. It's mentioned a lot in other threads, so I decided to make a single thread about the issue.

The issue at hand is the best method by which to tax the public for revenue needed for government purposes.

There are several forms of taxation proposed including progressive income taxation as the most prominent, flat income taxation, and national consumption taxes, like the Fairtax which has its possible faults and benefits

Now, it's rather noticeable that the current tax system needs reform, but the argument is how best to reform the system. I have my own idea that forms itself around our current taxation apparatus. It's meant to simplify the current tax system and make it streamlined and easy to understand and to see where everything falls.

1. All Medicare, SS, Payroll, Inheritance, Estate, Gift, AMT Taxes Eliminated

2. Personal Income Tax
Less Than $25,000 = 0%
$25,001 - 50,000 = 5%
$50,001 - 75,000 = 10%
$75,001 - 100,000 = 15%
$100,001 - 250,000 = 20%
$250,001 - 500,000 = 25%
$500,001 - 750,000 = 30%
$750,001 - 1,000,000 = 35%
$1,000,001 - 2,500,000 = 40%
$2,500,001 - 5,000,000 = 45%
$5,000,001 - 7,500,000 = 50%
$7,500,001 - 10,000,000 = 55%
$10,000,001 And Up = 60%
- All Incomes Treated as Single Income (Married Incomes Treated as Single Incomes)
- Only Tax Credit (First 2 Children = 2.5% Tax Decrease Each)

3. Corporate Income Tax (On Revenue)
Less Than $100,000 = 0%
$100,001 - 500,000 = 5%
$500,001 - 1,000,000 = 10%
$1,000,001 - 5,000,000 = 15%
$5,000,001 - 10,000,000 = 20%
$10,000,001 - 50,000,000 = 25%
$50,000,001 - 100,000,000 = 30%
$100,000,001 - 500,000,000 = 35%
$500,000,001 - 1,000,000,000 = 40%
$1,000,000,000 And Up = 45%
- Unincorporated Businesses Remain Untaxed
- Only Tax Credit (For Locating In United States = 2.5% Tax Decrease)
- No Subsidies

4. Tariff (Import Tax)
- 5% Flat Rate

5. Excise Tax
- 5% Flat Rate
- Specified Products (Alcohol, Tobacco, Soft Drinks, Fast Food, Juice Drinks, Marijuana, etc.)

6. Pollutant Tax
- 5% On Revenue For Each Surpassed Break
- Breaks For Each Pollutant Designated by EPA

I would actually like to see this implemented.... Well.. I want some projections at first.. I would like to know if there will be enough funding for everything.. Overall I like it.. As long as it pays the bills..

[Morgan]

I would actually like to see this implemented.... Well.. I want some projections at first.. I would like to know if there will be enough funding for everything.. Overall I like it.. As long as it pays the bills..

That's the thing I would need to look further into as well. I think it would definitely generate more revenue than we currently generate, possibly a lot more considering so many loopholes and credits would be eliminated. It also starts making the wealthiest Americans pay their fair share of the burden.

I see the payroll tax as not being effective enough in the workplace, and can often be regressive in some situations, and the others that I eliminated can cause confusion and convolution. I would expect in this system, the most complicated of any of the taxes would be the Pollutant Tax, which the general public doesn't have to deal with on a yearly basis, only large corporations that have whole teams of tax lawyers anyway.

I did some of the numbers, and lets take a generic large corporation that does business in the United States. They received 4 billion in revenue over a fiscal year, and they reside in the US so they get the US based tax credit. That means that they are taxed 42.5% of their revenue. This would come to 1.7 billion that would go to the US treasury. This is just one corporation, and not counting revenue from every other corporation, and all of the personal income tax revenue, excise tax revenue, tariff revenue, or pollutant tax revenue. I think the government would then be rolling in it, so it's possible that we could eve scale these numbers way back when the debt is gone.

[Rasselas]

Here's a suggestion: real cost taxation. The idea is simple--discover the costs of certain government expenses and then tax particularly to account for those costs. It wouldn't work for everything, but for some things.... For example, calculate the cost of keeping the US 5th Fleet stationed at Bahrain in the Persian Gulf, mostly to insure the flow of oil through the Straight of Hormuz. Tax the oil we import by a similar amount. I'm sure others can think of good applications of this idea.

[MajikMyst]

Here's a suggestion: real cost taxation. The idea is simple--discover the costs of certain government expenses and then tax particularly to account for those costs. It wouldn't work for everything, but for some things.... For example, calculate the cost of keeping the US 5th Fleet stationed at Bahrain in the Persian Gulf, mostly to insure the flow of oil through the Straight of Hormuz. Tax the oil we import by a similar amount. I'm sure others can think of good applications of this idea.

Good lord!! Do you really think we are every going to find out how much everything costs?? I want to know how much it costs to maintain the House and Senate.. How much is Boehner's gavel.. How much all their DC housing costs.. I want rules about their voting themselves a raise.. No raises for them unless they raise the minimum raise.. Not to mention repeal the last 20 years worth or raises they have recieved.. I want to know how much we pay on their healthcare.. I also think that any money they take from a lobbiest, 80% of it needs to go to the nations coffers.. After all, whomever is paying the lobbiest, will benefit big time from the law he wants.. They may as well pay some bills.. I also think that 20% of all campaign donation should also go to the nations coffers.. Or.. Make it where that if companies donate large amounts to one party, a portion of that goes to the other party.. So if Target gives 500k to the republicans, 20% of that goes to the dems.. Let's face it.. The CEO's campaign choices doesn't reflect the choices of the entire company.. And yes, this works both ways..

In either case.. There are a lot of little things that we never hear about in the cost of.. I would like to know how much those cost..

[bonncaruso]

I wished to make this thread to talk just about taxation. It's mentioned a lot in other threads, so I decided to make a single thread about the issue.

The issue at hand is the best method by which to tax the public for revenue needed for government purposes.

There are several forms of taxation proposed including progressive income taxation as the most prominent, flat income taxation, and national consumption taxes, like the Fairtax which has its possible faults and benefits

Now, it's rather noticeable that the current tax system needs reform, but the argument is how best to reform the system. I have my own idea that forms itself around our current taxation apparatus. It's meant to simplify the current tax system and make it streamlined and easy to understand and to see where everything falls.

1. All Medicare, SS, Payroll, Inheritance, Estate, Gift, AMT Taxes Eliminated

2. Personal Income Tax
Less Than $25,000 = 0%
$25,001 - 50,000 = 5%
$50,001 - 75,000 = 10%
$75,001 - 100,000 = 15%
$100,001 - 250,000 = 20%
$250,001 - 500,000 = 25%
$500,001 - 750,000 = 30%
$750,001 - 1,000,000 = 35%
$1,000,001 - 2,500,000 = 40%
$2,500,001 - 5,000,000 = 45%
$5,000,001 - 7,500,000 = 50%
$7,500,001 - 10,000,000 = 55%
$10,000,001 And Up = 60%
- All Incomes Treated as Single Income (Married Incomes Treated as Single Incomes)
- Only Tax Credit (First 2 Children = 2.5% Tax Decrease Each)

3. Corporate Income Tax (On Revenue)
Less Than $100,000 = 0%
$100,001 - 500,000 = 5%
$500,001 - 1,000,000 = 10%
$1,000,001 - 5,000,000 = 15%
$5,000,001 - 10,000,000 = 20%
$10,000,001 - 50,000,000 = 25%
$50,000,001 - 100,000,000 = 30%
$100,000,001 - 500,000,000 = 35%
$500,000,001 - 1,000,000,000 = 40%
$1,000,000,001 And Up = 45%
- Unincorporated Businesses Remain Untaxed
- Only Tax Credit (For Locating In United States = 2.5% Tax Decrease)
- No Subsidies

4. Tariff (Import Tax)
- 5% Flat Rate

5. Excise Tax
- 5% Flat Rate
- Specified Products (Alcohol, Tobacco, Soft Drinks, Fast Food, Juice Drinks, Marijuana, etc.)

6. Pollutant Tax
- 5% On Revenue For Each Surpassed Break
- Breaks For Each Pollutant Designated by EPA

Only works if there are absolutely no tax write-offs at all. Otherwise, we land where we are right now.

In 1950, the tax on the richest was close to 90%. This table is conservative by comparison.

[Morgan]

Only works if there are absolutely no tax write-offs at all. Otherwise, we land where we are right now.

In 1950, the tax on the richest was close to 90%. This table is conservative by comparison.

We'd need to build some kind of provisions into the tax law that made it difficult to impossible to put any more tax credits into the code, and vigilance from those that don't wish to see any.

Doing the numbers, it appears that even with this tax code, we could generate a considerable amount of revenue, and much more than we currently do.

[Rasselas]

Good lord!! Do you really think we are every going to find out how much everything costs?? I want to know how much it costs to maintain the House and Senate.. How much is Boehner's gavel.. How much all their DC housing costs.. I want rules about their voting themselves a raise.. No raises for them unless they raise the minimum raise.. Not to mention repeal the last 20 years worth or raises they have recieved.. I want to know how much we pay on their healthcare.. I also think that any money they take from a lobbiest, 80% of it needs to go to the nations coffers.. After all, whomever is paying the lobbiest, will benefit big time from the law he wants.. They may as well pay some bills.. I also think that 20% of all campaign donation should also go to the nations coffers.. Or.. Make it where that if companies donate large amounts to one party, a portion of that goes to the other party.. So if Target gives 500k to the republicans, 20% of that goes to the dems.. Let's face it.. The CEO's campaign choices doesn't reflect the choices of the entire company.. And yes, this works both ways..

In either case.. There are a lot of little things that we never hear about in the cost of.. I would like to know how much those cost..

I'm not suggesting we can or should cost things out for EVERYTHING. But there are ways that various entities shift costs in order not to pay for things themselves--economists call this 'externalizing' costs. The price of gasoline is one of these. I'm sure there are others. When we externalize the cost of something, that distorts its actual costs. Since prices are supposed to give consumers information about the nature of the costs of things, we should try to make those prices reflect real costs. That isn't true of the cost of Boehner's gavel, but it is true of the cost of inspecting food, employing air traffic control, etc. In California, when we buy an item that has to be recycled (televisions are a good example), there is a charge at the time of purchase aimed at covering the cost of eventual recycling--that's the sort of thing I'm talking about. Taxes should help the price of things represent their true costs.

[Jets]

I like the premise. Any change to the current code would be a blessing. Good stuff Morgan.