Thread: "Ends don't justify the means"

Ends don’t justify the means - Boston.com

I don’t know whether waterboarding was indispensable to rolling up bin Laden; for every interrogation expert who says it was, another expert argues the opposite. But the case against waterboarding never rested primarily on its usefulness. It rested on its wrongfulness.
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The killing of bin Laden was gratifying, but it was no vindication of torture. Republicans rightly argue that much credit is owed to George W. Bush, who launched an effective war on terror and pursued it with fierce resolve. But Bush was wrong to permit waterboarding, and wrong to deny that it was torture. I don’t agree with Obama on much, but when it comes to waterboarding, he is right. America will defeat the global jihad, but not by embracing its most inhuman values.

While I understand this is an op-ed, I do agree with Jacoby's view.

Originally Posted by Babba

America will defeat the global jihad, but not by embracing its most inhuman values.

Bingo! As a matter of fact we'll defeat it faster if we don't lower ourselves to their level.

Explain how. I seem to remember us finishing off the Japanese by dropping nukes on two of their cities. Do you think -not waterboarding- will make the Islamo-Fascists stop attacking us?

Suicide attacks in Pakistan kill 80; Taliban claim bin Laden revenge - CNN.com

"The Pakistani Taliban claimed responsibility Friday for suicide attacks on a military training facility in the nation's northwest, saying they were in retaliation for the killing of terror leader Osama bin Laden.

The twin suicide bombings killed at least 80 people, nearly all of them military recruits who had just completed their training, said Bashir Ahmad Bilour, a senior provincial minister. About 140 others were injured.

"Pakistani and the U.S. forces should be ready for more attacks," said Ihsan Ullah Ihsan, a spokesman for the Pakistani Taliban, who accused the Pakistani military of telling the United States where bin Laden was.

"Osama was our great leader and the killers of Osama will have to pay its price," he said."

Originally Posted by Babba

When we use these techniques we help AQ and the other groups recruit. I'm not saying that they wouldn't have recruits at all if we didn't do things like waterboarding, so don't suggest that's what I'm saying. I am saying that it makes easier and that means there are more people hating us and determined to get back at us.

Do you really think AQ is going to have any trouble recruiting without these techniques or that Arabs will stop hating us if we hope really REALLY hard?

Originally Posted by Babba

When we use these techniques we help AQ and the other groups recruit. I'm not saying that they wouldn't have recruits at all if we didn't do things like waterboarding, so don't suggest that's what I'm saying. I am saying that it makes easier and that means there are more people hating us and determined to get back at us.

I heard this recruiting argument all the time when we were fighting AQ in Iraq. It seems to me the reason they seem to be limited to Pakistan is that the members of their own sect (Sunni if I remember correctly) turned on them because they were killing so many Muslims. Now they are doing the same in Pakistan. Would we have been better off putting OBL on ice somewhere and pretending we didn't know where he was? Or should we just let them keep trying to hurt us by killing Muslims?

Originally Posted by kmiller1610

I heard this recruiting argument all the time when we were fighting AQ in Iraq. It seems to me the reason they seem to be limited to Pakistan is that the members of their own sect (Sunni if I remember correctly) turned on them because they were killing so many Muslims. Now they are doing the same in Pakistan. Would we have been better off putting OBL on ice somewhere and pretending we didn't know where he was? Or should we just let them keep trying to hurt us by killing Muslims?

Good point.