10 Fallacies about Federal Health Care Reform

**Djinn** · 23rd March 2011 03:56 PM

All of these, without exception, are false. Note that these fallacies come from both Democratic and Republican sources.
Source - Politifact

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"The federal health care law is "probably the biggest tax increase ever in the history of our country."

Florida Gov. Rick Scott, Thursday, February 3rd, 2011.
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Twelve judges have thrown out legal challenges to the health care law because they rejected "the notion that the health care law was unconstitutional."

Pres. Barack Obama, Sunday, February 6th, 2011.
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Gun ownership information could be recorded and collected by the federal government and insurance companies as part of the federal health care law.

Florida State Rep Jason Brodeur, Sunday, January 16th, 2011.

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The health care law includes tort reform.

New York State Rep Anthony Weiner, Wednesday, January 19th, 2011.

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The health care law is "job killing."

House Republican leader Eric Cantor, Wednesday, January 19th, 2011.

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Those who fail to buy health insurance under "Obamacare" face the threat of jail time.

Virginia House of Delegates Member, 13th District Bob Marshall, Monday, December 13th, 2010.

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Under the new health care law, "the first person (a) patient has to go to is a bureaucrat. That is called a panel."

Republican businessman John Raese, Monday, October 18th, 2010.

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The new health care law crushes small businesses "with billions in penalties."

U.S. Chamber of Commerce, Tuesday, October 5th, 2010.

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Under the new health care law, "all real estate transactions will be subject to a 3.8% Sales Tax"

Chain e-mail, Monday, August 2nd, 2010.

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Starting in 2011, "you will be required to pay taxes" on "the value of whatever health insurance you are given by the company."

Chain e-mail, Thursday, June 10th, 2010.

**Mordent** · 23rd March 2011 04:02 PM

Interesting.
I'm not so sure about this one:

Those who fail to buy health insurance under "Obamacare" face the threat of jail time.

Sure, technically, you are levied with a fine for not having insurance. I'd like to know what happens when you don't, won't, or can't pay that fine... Nothing?

**Six** · 23rd March 2011 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by Djinn

All of these, without exception, are false. Note that these fallacies come from both Democratic and Republican sources.
Source - Politifact

=========================

"The federal health care law is "probably the biggest tax increase ever in the history of our country."

Florida Gov. Rick Scott, Thursday, February 3rd, 2011.
=========================

Twelve judges have thrown out legal challenges to the health care law because they rejected "the notion that the health care law was unconstitutional."

Pres. Barack Obama, Sunday, February 6th, 2011.
=========================

Gun ownership information could be recorded and collected by the federal government and insurance companies as part of the federal health care law.

Florida State Rep Jason Brodeur, Sunday, January 16th, 2011.

=========================

The health care law includes tort reform.

New York State Rep Anthony Weiner, Wednesday, January 19th, 2011.

=========================

The health care law is "job killing."

House Republican leader Eric Cantor, Wednesday, January 19th, 2011.

=========================

Those who fail to buy health insurance under "Obamacare" face the threat of jail time.

Virginia House of Delegates Member, 13th District Bob Marshall, Monday, December 13th, 2010.

=========================

Under the new health care law, "the first person (a) patient has to go to is a bureaucrat. That is called a panel."

Republican businessman John Raese, Monday, October 18th, 2010.

=========================

The new health care law crushes small businesses "with billions in penalties."

U.S. Chamber of Commerce, Tuesday, October 5th, 2010.

=========================

Under the new health care law, "all real estate transactions will be subject to a 3.8% Sales Tax"

Chain e-mail, Monday, August 2nd, 2010.

=========================

Starting in 2011, "you will be required to pay taxes" on "the value of whatever health insurance you are given by the company."

Chain e-mail, Thursday, June 10th, 2010.

A Lot of that is political talking points from the left, not much in your op backing up those assertions. Already due to the new health care law premiums are skyrocketing when Obama said they would decline by 2500 a year per family.

Also none of what you posted shows how these economically crippled states are going to pay for it, or how it really doesn't lower the decrease the deficit.

The doctor fix was taken out before it was submitted to the CBO. Care to post the revised CBO numbers on the Health Care Law ? It was a disaster of a bill that will haunt the Democrats for decades.

**Djinn** · 23rd March 2011 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by Mordent

Interesting.
I'm not so sure about this one:

Sure, technically, you are levied with a fine for not having insurance. I'd like to know what happens when you don't, won't, or can't pay that fine... Nothing?

Not nothing... From my link:

Both House and Senate versions of the health care bill contained language that would levy a tax on persons who refuse to obtain coverage. Under the House version, evading that tax would have resulted in jail time; but not in the bill approved by the Senate Finance Committee and eventually made law.

The health care bill signed by President Obama explicitly says there are no criminal penalties for those who do not obtain coverage and refuse to pay the penalty tax.

As plainly stated on page 111 of the law, "In the case of any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty imposed by this section, such taxpayer shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution or penalty with respect to such failure." There would also be no liens or levies placed on property for failure to pay.

Instead, the law would allow the government to collect the tax by deducting it from any IRS tax-refund checks or other government payments.

**Macduff** · 23rd March 2011 04:13 PM

Starting in 2011, "you will be required to pay taxes" on "the value of whatever health insurance you are given by the company."

Chain e-mail, Thursday, June 10th, 2010.

Now, I'm no fan of the President's health care plan or of taxes. But I don't know how it's unfair to tax employer provided health insurance benefits. Since this is money you don't have to spend yourself on insurance, in effect, it is acting the same as pay.

**Babba** · 23rd March 2011 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by Macduff

Now, I'm no fan of the President's health care plan or of taxes. But I don't know how it's unfair to tax employer provided health insurance benefits. Since this is money you don't have to spend yourself on insurance, in effect, it is acting the same as pay.

You actually have a good point which is why I wasn't against the proposed tax on "Cadillac Plans". I'm sure you might think it unfair to tax the better plans and exempt the "lesser" plans, but we do agree on the concept, anyway.

**Macduff** · 23rd March 2011 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by Babba

You actually have a good point which is why I wasn't against the proposed tax on "Cadillac Plans". I'm sure you might think it unfair to tax the better plans and exempt the "lesser" plans, but we do agree on the concept, anyway.

Right now, the system is heavily weighted towards employer coverage (through regulation and the tax code). I think that distorts market incentives and restricts choice for individuals. I'd like to see the system go towards individuals buying their own insurance (with subsidies to lower income people).

Scottie · 23rd March 2011 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by Mordent

Interesting.
I'm not so sure about this one:

Sure, technically, you are levied with a fine for not having insurance. I'd like to know what happens when you don't, won't, or can't pay that fine... Nothing?

You pay it during tax time, correct? not sure. What happens if you don't pay taxes. I'm just throwing that out there. not sure

**Babba** · 23rd March 2011 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by Macduff

Right now, the system is heavily weighted towards employer coverage (through regulation and the tax code). I think that distorts market incentives and restricts choice for individuals. I'd like to see the system go towards individuals buying their own insurance (with subsidies to lower income people).

I agree that the employer-based coverage is inefficient and certainly not cost effective. If we must have private insurance then I want real competition. If the individual is shielded from the real cost of the their health insurance and the employer restricts their choices, and is provided discounts the individual is not accorded, that completely distorts the market. If everyone went into the same market with the same laws applying to everyone and we provide subsidies to low income people, that could work. but that's not what we got. At the time of the debate over health care, the Dems couldn't take the chance of scaring off people who are provided health insurance by their employers so they had to say that if you have insurance nothing will change. Especially since most people who have insurance are satisfied with what they have. So, we get stuck with this hodge-podge that is helpful to a lot of people, but it is not going to achieve its goals of insuring everyone and reining in health care costs. It's a start toward something better. We need to encourage entrepreneurship and the cost of health insurance alone deters a lot of people with excellent ideas from pursuing those ideas.

Single-payer is the most efficient and cost effective, though. It would be best for our economy if no one ever had to worry about obtaining regular health care.

**Babba** · 23rd March 2011 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by scottie

You pay it during tax time, correct? not sure. What happens if you don't pay taxes. I'm just throwing that out there. not sure

To be honest I wonder about that, too. I mean if you don't pay your taxes, sooner or later you could very well go to jail, right?

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