Thread: Cheney's Last Resort: Calls for Release of Memos That Show Torture "Works"

Dick says that he wants CIA memos released that show the effectiveness of torture, after the recent release of memos that give a snapshot into "lawyer world" of the Bush administration's justification for torture. They were released to Cheney's dismay.

Will these be released?

Let's see those memos, Mr. Cheney. But let's also see the waterboarding videos. Let's see the interrogation logs, and let's see actual interrogations in progress. That is, if the recordings still exist.

According to professional interrogators, it probably created little or no major information. But let's see it anyway, Mr. Cheney, along with the logs and videos. Let's see what justifies torture to you.

Former US Vice-President Dick Cheney has urged the CIA to release memos which he says show harsh interrogation techniques such as water-boarding work.
His comments follow the publication of memos written by Bush administration lawyers which justified the techniques.
Mr Cheney said that the decision to publish the memos was a mistake.
And it was misleading, he said, because the documents did not include those demonstrating that harsh interrogation delivered intelligence "success".
"One of the things that I find a little bit disturbing about this recent disclosure is that they put out the legal memos... but they didn't put out the memos that show the success of the effort," Mr Cheney told Fox News.

The real question - of course - is whether waterboarding is justified under any circumstances

"There are reports that show specifically what we gained as a result of this activity. They have not been declassified. I formally ask that they be declassified now."
The American people should have a chance to weigh the intelligence obtained alongside the legal debate, he said.
Mr Cheney made his comments as US President Barack Obama visited the CIA headquarters just outside Washington.
In a move seen as an attempt to boost morale, Mr Obama told employees that the CIA remained key to protecting the country.

Don't be discouraged that we have to acknowledge that potentially we've made some mistakes
Barack Obama

Interrogation 'morass' for Obama
Q&A: Water-boarding
Staff had faced a "difficult" few days, he acknowledged, but they had his full support and were key to tackling threats from groups such as al-Qaeda.
Mr Obama said he had had no choice but to release the Bush administration's legal justification for interrogation techniques, which he considers to be torture - and has banned.
"Don't be discouraged that we have to acknowledge that potentially we've made some mistakes.
"That's how we learn. But the fact that we are willing to acknowledge them and then move forward, that is precisely why I am proud to be president of the United States and that's why you should be proud to be members of the CIA," he said.
The memos, detailing the range of techniques the CIA was allowed to use during the Bush administration, were released on 16 April.
Quoting one of the memos, The New York Times said water-boarding - or mock drowning - was used on two al-Qaeda terror suspects on up to 266 occasions.
Other methods mentioned in the memos include week-long sleep deprivation, forced nudity and the use of painful positions.
Mr Obama on Thursday said he would not prosecute under anti-torture laws CIA personnel who relied in good faith on Bush administration legal opinions issued after the 11 September attacks.
But he has been criticised by human rights organisations and UN officials, who say charges are necessary to prevent future abuses and to hold people accountable.

BBC NEWS | World | Americas | Cheney enters 'torture' memos row

I think the docs were leaked, I dunno, something about Jack the Ripper, and Hoffa.

The videos and logs may be with Hoffa, too.

Cheney is probably counting on nothing being released, so he can do damage control regarding the already released memos.

Originally Posted by Bluegrass

But let's also see the waterboarding videos. Let's see the interrogation logs, and let's see actual interrogations in progress.

While we're at it, let's show actual footage of our soldiers sticking knives in the bellies of our enemies while engaged in hand to hand combat or even better, shooting terrorists in the face with high powered rifles. Maybe if we show enough of the horrors of war, the people will insist on disbanding the military entirely.

Then will have a few years where we won't have to think about war until we are overrun and America is no more.

The again, we deserve it, don't we? Imagine waterboarding people who want us all dead or converted. How dare we resist!?

Originally Posted by kmiller1610

While we're at it, let's show actual footage of our soldiers sticking knives in the bellies of our enemies while engaged in hand to hand combat or even better, shooting terrorists in the face with high powered rifles. Maybe if we show enough of the horrors of war, the people will insist on disbanding the military entirely.

Turn off the spin cycle.

This is about torture. That is, forced used against unarmed prisoners in order to extract information from them. This isn't about sensationalism, it is about seeing techniques they were using in action and also what they were logging during these interrogations. It's about seeing what information they really got out of torture.

To compare that with military conflict is absurd.

Then will have a few years where we won't have to think about war until we are overrun and America is no more.

This is an incredibly naive statement. All the while, American'r rights are being infringed upon from within, yet you actually think the spooky terrorists are going to take over the country. That's nuttier than a Snickers bar.

The again, we deserve it, don't we?

Nobody deserves to be overrun by anyone else. Another one of your spin techniques that I have waited far too long to call out. "Oh, we're the bad guy's aren't we?" or something along those lines is constantly used to create an illusion of someone else hating America just because you disagree with them. If you actually had a valid, worthwhile point, you wouldn't have to do this.

Imagine waterboarding people who want us all dead or converted. How dare we resist!?

These are suspects. Most have/had no evidence against them. Your assertion is based on a lie.

Originally Posted by Bluegrass

These are suspects. Most have/had no evidence against them. Your assertion is based on a lie.

So what is your desire to show interrogation techniques on TV based on?

Originally Posted by kmiller1610

So what is your desire to show interrogation techniques on TV based on?

Being that your assertion was based on a lie (that you did not address), this one is based on a lie as well. Please show where I contended this should be "shown on TV".

It should be shown to those investigating the effectiveness of torture in the prison camps you support.

Cheney's opinions of Obama's foreign policy lately has been a stupid move on his part. It looks like Obama just may let the investigations begin.
Obama: Interrogation prosecution possible - White House- msnbc.com
I bet that put a big 'ol sock in Dick's piehole, and now he is scrambling to do damage control. For justice sake, let's hope these war criminals are dealt with to the full extent of the law.

Originally Posted by Bluegrass

Turn off the spin cycle.

This is about torture. That is, forced used against unarmed prisoners in order to extract information from them. This isn't about sensationalism, it is about seeing techniques they were using in action and also what they were logging during these interrogations. It's about seeing what information they really got out of torture.

To compare that with military conflict is absurd.



This is an incredibly naive statement. All the while, American'r rights are being infringed upon from within, yet you actually think the spooky terrorists are going to take over the country. That's nuttier than a Snickers bar.



Nobody deserves to be overrun by anyone else. Another one of your spin techniques that I have waited far too long to call out. "Oh, we're the bad guy's aren't we?" or something along those lines is constantly used to create an illusion of someone else hating America just because you disagree with them. If you actually had a valid, worthwhile point, you wouldn't have to do this.



These are suspects. Most have/had no evidence against them. Your assertion is based on a lie.

Your the one spinning. Your defintion of torture is anything that was done to get useful information during the Bush Presidency. It really has little to do with the actual and true definition.

So since the released memo's shows that there was NO torure, I think Obama should release documents that show what kind of information we got from these techniques.

Originally Posted by Bluegrass

Dick says that he wants CIA memos released that show the effectiveness of torture, after the recent release of memos that give a snapshot into "lawyer world" of the Bush administration's justification for torture. They were released to Cheney's dismay...........

According to professional interrogators, it probably created little or no major information. But let's see it anyway, Mr. Cheney, along with the logs and videos. Let's see what justifies torture to you.

BBC NEWS | World | Americas | Cheney enters 'torture' memos row

Checkmate

Intel chief: Harsh techniques brought good info

Private memo says interrogation methods helped nation in terrorism fight

WASHINGTON (AP) - The Obama administration's top intelligence official privately told employees last week that "high value information" was obtained in interrogations that included harsh techniques approved by former President George W. Bush.

Intel director: High-value info obtained

The CIA's Questioning Worked

In releasing highly classified documents on the CIA interrogation program last week, President Obama declared that the techniques used to question captured terrorists "did not make us safer." This is patently false. The proof is in the memos Obama made public -- in sections that have gone virtually unreported in the media.

Consider the Justice Department memo of May 30, 2005. It notes that "the CIA believes 'the intelligence acquired from these interrogations has been a key reason why al Qaeda has failed to launch a spectacular attack in the West since 11 September 2001.' . . . In particular, the CIA believes that it would have been unable to obtain critical information from numerous detainees, including [Khalid Sheik Mohammed] and Abu Zubaydah, without these enhanced techniques." The memo continues: "Before the CIA used enhanced techniques . . . KSM resisted giving any answers to questions about future attacks, simply noting, 'Soon you will find out.' " Once the techniques were applied, "interrogations have led to specific, actionable intelligence, as well as a general increase in the amount of intelligence regarding al Qaeda and its affiliates."

Specifically, interrogation with enhanced techniques "led to the discovery of a KSM plot, the 'Second Wave,' 'to use East Asian operatives to crash a hijacked airliner into' a building in Los Angeles." KSM later acknowledged before a military commission at Guantanamo Bay that the target was the Library Tower, the tallest building on the West Coast. The memo explains that "information obtained from KSM also led to the capture of Riduan bin Isomuddin, better known as Hambali, and the discovery of the Guraba Cell, a 17-member Jemmah Islamiyah cell tasked with executing the 'Second Wave.' " In other words, without enhanced interrogations, there could be a hole in the ground in Los Angeles to match the one in New York.
washingtonpost.com

The debate is over, the techniques worked, they provided valuable information.

It is now for you to show it would have been more morally correct to not use them to stop the attacks that would have killed thousands of our citizens and causing a HUGE hit on our economy and stability.

Let's see you make that case.