Thread: bin Laden: Dead And Loving It

[quote name='Disappointed not surprised' date='22 February 2010 - 02:31 PM' timestamp='1266867089' post='119598']

An Iran with a moderate, rational voice on the international stage would be a complete departure from reality as it is and as it has been since Jimmy Carter's day.[/quote]The point is not whether or not anything like that is going to happen tomorrow. The point is that no matter what happens, some of our leaders believe that Iran must be kept in its place, either for racist reasons or to preserve the status quo for any number of reasons...most of which come down to fear of the unknown.

[quote name='gabebrooks' date='20 February 2010 - 11:25 PM' timestamp='1266733551' post='118911']

I miss the days before blogs, when the media actually had reporters researching and reporting real news... before they could plagerize wikipedia. I believe that news was less biased before the masses had the Internet to make their uninformed voices heard.[/quote]

Change that statement to this, and you got it spot on.

I miss the days before blogs, when the media actually had reporters researching and reporting what they wanted you to see as the real news... before they could be found to have plagarized or invented their facts. I believe that news was less biased before the masses had the Internet to make their uninformed voices heard.

I allow your last statement to stand, for clearly, that is the belief of many in the media.

[quote name='splansing' date='22 February 2010 - 12:20 PM' timestamp='1266866402' post='119589']

It seems that if history is any indication, a lot of them are very honestly, very deeply convinced that war is good for a nation. In addition to the obvious (beating down your competition for resources), it stokes patriotism, it sharpens the killer instincts.[/quote]

History shows quite the opposite. Political leaders will sometimes, and appropriately so, determine war is necessary, but rarely is it desired.



History is full of cases where a political leader or nation avoids war, eventually to the detriment of their own nation, and the detriment of a great many of others.

[quote name='Disappointed not surprised' date='22 February 2010 - 12:39 PM' timestamp='1266867599' post='119608']

I was not and am not in favor of invading any countries.[/quote]

Why not? that seems like a rather poorly thought out position.



If the US had joined with England and France in July of 1939, after Germany took over Czechoslovakia, and invaded Germany, likely WWII would have been a short lived, regional war, saving the lives of millions. There are really good reasons for pre-emptive war, the 1967 Arab-Israeli conflict (the 6 day war) is a good example.

[quote name='Disappointed not surprised' date='22 February 2010 - 02:39 PM' timestamp='1266867599' post='119608']... at least until Israel bombs the ever-living-shit out of them.[/quote]Oh, good...the Israelis. Thank god. The voice of reason.



Despite the meddling of colonial powers for almost a century, Iranians have managed to limit the influence of truly evil and radical influences for decades. As michaelr pointed out, they haven't invaded anyone. Honestly, the nightmare of western policy in Iran throughout the 20th century would be ample justification for just about any sort of America-hating shit you can imagine. Those people suffered horribly under the boot of the fucking Shah. If every Iranian I'd ever met told me he hated me and wanted me and my family dead I wouldn't blame him.



But the truth is, that isn't what happens. Sure, hard liners have had their day, and certainly there are elements within Iran that would love to kill us all. But I think it's practically a miracle that the entire country isn't much, much more radical than it is, and hasn't caused far more problems in the region and around the world for decades. Given what they endured at the hands of the British and the American empires, I'd say they're a pillar of moderation and even-handedness. And if you disagree, ask yourself how you'd react if some foreign power installed a regime here that tortured you or your brothers and sisters or your husband or wife or your children, for decades. I submit a fair number of bloggers here would be looking for an airplane to fly into a building somewhere.

[quote name='ArizonaIrish' date='22 February 2010 - 02:44 PM' timestamp='1266867842' post='119613']

History shows quite the opposite. Political leaders will sometimes, and appropriately so, determine war is necessary, but rarely is it desired.



History is full of cases where a political leader or nation avoids war, eventually to the detriment of their own nation, and the detriment of a great many of others.[/quote]History is full of of a lot of things, including examples of war mongering racists like McKinley, T Roosevelt, and pretty much all of their contemporaries. I'm not telling you some leaders aren't moderate and peace-loving. I'm telling you that without any question, a certain percentage of them are war mongers, who believe very deeply that war is good for a nation's soul. The evidence is written in their memoirs, their letters, quotations in newspapers and journals, all over the place. This is not a guess.



And unfortunately, when the war mongers are good politicians, are good at manipulating public perceptions, are skilled tacticians and daring enough to make bold moves at the right times...a very few of them can dominate a room full of more moderate souls, can stir up the rabble so that only the politically suicidal will oppose them and their war cries. For an example, look at pretty much every war ever fought by any nation. They're all about money and the preservation of power for those who already have it. There are very few exceptions.