Thread: Why we need the second stimulus package

Lately, there has been a lot of debate over President Obama's proposal and over how is the best way to stimulate the economy.

Our friends on the right tell us tax cuts for businesses will give them money to expand their business while saving and creating hundreds of thousands of jobs. Trickle-down economics was President Reagan's term.

Their main complaint with Obama's plan as I see it is they believe the massive spending won't create many jobs or stimulate the economy in the short term. Trickle-Down Economics present the very same problem.

Most major employers are in the red right now. Any money they save from tax cuts will be used to cut that company's losses or save what few jobs they have left. Saving jobs is important, don't get me wrong. That's why some form of tax cuts need to be, and will be, added into this package. The fact is however, that right now tax cuts for business won't create jobs or stimulate the economy as a whole.

It seemed that both sides of our aisle agreed on stimulus checks for a majority of American's last time around. Some have suggested we do that again. 10% of American's are unemployed and many others are very concerned about joining those ranks in the near future. It's fair to say most people getting stimulus checks didn't go out and buy a new washer and dryer, they paid off a credit card or saved that money for the rainy days they fear ahead. While important, that doesn't put money back into the system.

I think it's about time we see that there are not much better options that infrastructure spending. Obama has put a priority on "shovel-ready" projects, projects that can be started as soon as the money is approved. A large number of the unemployed used to work construction or assembly related jobs. By building and renovating public buildings and creating massive alternative energy infrastructure we can put both skilled and unskilled workers back to work. The companies that supply the goods needed for these projects also get a boost. The idea is when these projects are completed and it's time to roll back on government spending, the market will have improved enough to put those people back to work. Never mind that when you create alternative energy infrastructure you also create permanent jobs in those facilities.

No stimulus package is without it's flaws and this one can be improved. What I'm saying is that we all 'ought to back the President on the basic building blocks of this package. I can understand that people don't want to spend 800 billion taxpayer dollars but something needs to be done, and done right now. The plan as it stands right now is the best way to get that done.

Originally Posted by Dichtonomy of Hope

The plan as it stands right now is the best way to get that done.

No. It's not. But it's a start.

And, it DOES seem to be necessary. Otherwise, the riots will come sooner, rather than later.

But the plan "as it stands right now", is nowhere NEAR enough. The numbers simply don't work. They don't add up. There are a LOT of us around here who see that truth. And, our best guess, is that the guvmint sees it too, but they're not telling us about it, they're tryin' to HIDE it from us. (Actually, they've been letting the steam escape slowly, lately, but that's only 'cause they HAVE to, it's that bad).

We MUST restore accurate metrics in our economic and financial accounting. It is of CRITICAL significance, right NOW, right at this moment in time. The bailout is good, but it'll only keep things "going" for a little while. The underlying problems, are MUCH deeper than a simple bailout will address.

Originally Posted by nonsqtr

No. It's not. But it's a start.

And, it DOES seem to be necessary. Otherwise, the riots will come sooner, rather than later.

But the plan "as it stands right now", is nowhere NEAR enough. The numbers simply don't work. They don't add up. There are a LOT of us around here who see that truth. And, our best guess, is that the guvmint sees it too, but they're not telling us about it, they're tryin' to HIDE it from us. (Actually, they've been letting the steam escape slowly, lately, but that's only 'cause they HAVE to, it's that bad).

We MUST restore accurate metrics in our economic and financial accounting. It is of CRITICAL significance, right NOW, right at this moment in time. The bailout is good, but it'll only keep things "going" for a little while. The underlying problems, are MUCH deeper than a simple bailout will address.

I can respect that. I'm not trying to be confrontational but can you show me these numbers, I don't have much in the way of time to research them myself and I'd like to see where the gaps in the numbers lie. I'm looking at this from an average-American point of view, one who doesn't delve too deep into the political world.

What I'm trying to say, as I'm sure you can see is that the building blocks of infrastructure spending and energy production are key to any successful "bailout".

So tell me, in your opinion, should we pass a bill like this one because times call for immediate action or do we sit back and wait till we can get a more productive bill at the cost of time?

Originally Posted by Dichtonomy of Hope

So tell me, in your opinion, should we pass a bill like this one because times call for immediate action or do we sit back and wait till we can get a more productive bill at the cost of time?

Absolutely! No, please dont' misunderstand, I support Obama 100% in his efforts. I think this bill is "necessary" (unfortunately - I hate its guts, I hate the whole concept of it, but I DO consider that it's necessary).

But, I also think, that we really need to address the longer-term and larger-scope issue(s), and right at the moment, that has mostly to do with the verticalization of multi-national corporations, and, the expansion of same "outside" of the boundaries of their economic compartments.

It seems to me, just from lookin' at the numbers, that it would take in the neighborhood of TWENTY such stimulus packages, to really assuage the problem that people are lookin' at. I mean, this whole thing cascades, we ain't seen nothin' yet. This morning, the credit card companies are makin' noise about cutting back on consumer credit, and that would be the WORST thing they could possibly do, that would cause massive defaults 'cause people would just get pissed and walk away. I would CERTAINLY do that, myself, and best of luck to 'em comin' after me! Can't squeeze blood out of a turnip! Ah ha ha ha - - and I mean, there's MILLIONS of people with the same viewpoint.

Nah, the gov is between a rock and hard place. The last guy screwed up REALLY bad, and I really do HOPE these new guys can pull back the reins in enough time to stop things from gettin' REALLY bad, 'cause we are "right on the cusp" right now, and things could go either way. I give 'em about a 50/50 right now.

And I mean, if we DO manage to pull back from this, we'll just have the same problem all over again in two years, or five. We need to change some BASIC stuff about the way we do business around here, and a lot of it has to do with LIMITING the powers of big business.

Well the Republicans got theirs, so now the Democrats need their bigger and better one.

^^^^^rage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!^^^^^

When this one doesn't work, then watch out for another one which will be double the size. The only solution politicians can come up with is make something bigger and more expensive.

Oops another bank failure (in Salt Lake City) - only this time, they couldn't find anyone to buy it! So, the FDIC is mailing out checks to depositors!

Uh oh.... :scared: