Are Teachers Unions Good for Us?

**Amit** · 3rd February 2010 12:51 PM

My pros and cons

Pros:

Give teachers representation (important in the day and age of the government trying to force standards on teachers too quickly)
It's been proven that union negotiations can help bring tools to schools faster than without unified representation.

Cons:

make it (more) difficult to get rid of underperforming teachers
unionized schools consistently underperform non-unionized.
Cost

**Daktoria** · 3rd February 2010 01:14 PM

No, they're not good, and it has to do more with culture than economics. Youth consumption for the past few generations has revolved far too much around trying to impress within the confines of a government managed institution that the Department of Education oversees, the Dept of Edu being the primary establishment that teacher unions get to lobby and indoctrinate children through the political correctification of curricula. Environmentalism, new age feminism, multiculturalism, etc. owe tons of credit to the tolerance of smart ass behavior that's encouraged by teachers who want to practice diversity and equality without engaging the principles and motives behind those notions. The result is a disgusting "progressive" movement that actually engages in realpolitik every single day that children attend school as well as a culture war that gets disguised under "pragmatic" sympathies which anti-intellectual conservatives abdicate to because they're too bothered to actually engage "progressives" in a civil and intellectual manner.

**Blah** · 3rd February 2010 01:17 PM

Teachers unions are redundant, they work for the government. The same government that sets labor standards,

routinely pays better than private sector, provides benefits, etc. There's no "evil corporation" to save them from.

All the union does is leech off the system and protect the status quo in poor performance.

**Chief** · 3rd February 2010 01:51 PM

[quote name='PoliticalHotwire' date='03 February 2010 - 11:51 AM' timestamp='1265226691' post='110528']

My pros and cons

Pros:

Give teachers representation (important in the day and age of the government trying to force standards on teachers too quickly)
It's been proven that union negotiations can help bring tools to schools faster than without unified representation.

Cons:

make it (more) difficult to get rid of underperforming teachers
unionized schools consistently underperform non-unionized.
Cost

[/quote]

Bolded is the last straw for me. There are many reasonable reasons to unionize... but if it is at the cost of the education, then what's the point? That is the bottom line, IMO.

**Disappointed not surprised** · 3rd February 2010 02:09 PM

Q. Are teachers' unions good for us?

A. No. THEY ARE FOR THE GOOD OF THE CHILDREN !!!!!!!!!!!

Teachers'Unions are just another institution that at one time served a valid and valiant purpose and has now deteriorated into a self-serving and over-reaching blight on humanity.

**Daktoria** · 3rd February 2010 05:01 PM

How can teacher unions be good? If the effectiveness of teaching comes down to the ability to nurture, then a union is implicitly a political vehicle since nurturing requires subscription to certain political values. On the other hand, if the effectiveness of teaching comes down to competency and hard discipline, then professional teachers shouldn't exist since education would be optimized through holistic chemistry a la apprenticeships, internships, understudies, etc.

If effectiveness is a mixture, then both of these issues apply.

**Dr.Knuckles** · 3rd February 2010 05:06 PM

If political campaign finance was reformed the worst aspects of teachers unions would be obsolte the next day.

As is happening up here.

Unionise all you want but if you can't give millions in cash to a political candidate who will use government authroity to 'pay you back' there's really nothing to be gained. So you go back to negotiating better conditions and who gets what sick day paid for - rather than ridiculous hockey-sock, pie in the sky demands that 'your people' in government make happen.

**Daktoria** · 3rd February 2010 05:43 PM

Knuckles, I'm not really sure about what you're saying when education is a mandate, especially when public education is provided. Union members will demand that educational environments become constructed in certain ways in order for their contractual demands to be satisfied, so politics will inevitably become an element because of the ethical values that teachers care about.

In contrast, the ethical values of other unions don't coincide with politics because noneducational workplaces aren't primarily created for instruction (for immature minds nonetheless).

**freecell** · 3rd February 2010 07:24 PM

For the teachers yes, for us or the children I don't know.

**Blah** · 3rd February 2010 08:11 PM

[quote name='freecell' date='03 February 2010 - 06:24 PM' timestamp='1265250278' post='110709']

For the teachers yes, for us or the children I don't know.

[/quote]

Is it good for all the teachers?

Or just the uninspired bad ones who can never be replaced by someone able to do better?