Thread: Are Teachers Unions Good for Us?

[quote name='jennie8320' date='08 February 2010 - 09:59 AM' timestamp='1265641163' post='112601']

Most private schools turn kids down with medical issues due to costs that can be associated with the disability. The number one reason is liability. My son has a medical condition. The private school he attends did not want to enroll him at first due to liability. We had their lawyer draw up papers stating I would not hold them liable and they accepted him.



My other son has a learning disability. They also accepted him. They have both been at the school for twelve years.



Their school will also accept foreign students as long as the students are willing to enroll in English speaking classes before attending and in the summers if needed. This is what should be required for our public school system.



Private schools do accept troublemakers. However, the difference is private schools are able to get creative with discipline that not accepted in the public school system. There was a group of boys causing trouble at my son’s school (unfortunately, one of mine was included in the group). The principal made them clean all the bathrooms with a toothbrush. As to say he did not and nor did I have any more problems. [/quote]

But like I said... The difference is that the private schools are allowed to make such decisions. Based on your post, the private school CHOSE to accept your son. They CHOSE to accept your son with a learning disability. And they may CHOOSE to accept troublemakers.



They can also CHOOSE to reject students.



Public schools don't get to make such decisions. They must, by law, accept students, regardless of liability, expense, or any other circumstance.

Your tax dollars at work, THANKS teachers' Unions!

About 160 teachers and other staff sit idly in buildings scatteredaround the sprawling district, waiting for allegations of misconduct tobe resolved.



The housed are accused, among other things, of sexual contact withstudents, harassment, theft or drug possession. Nearly all are beingpaid. All told, they collect about $10 million in salaries per year --even as the district is contemplating widespread layoffs of teachersbecause of a financial shortfall.

National issue



The problem of what to do with teachers in trouble extends well beyondLos Angeles Unified. But not every district in California, or thecountry, handles it the same way.



In New York City public schools, which make up the country'slargest district, teachers are confined to "rubber rooms." About 550 ofthe district's 80,000 teachers spend school hours "literally just doingcrossword puzzles, waiting for the end of the day" until their casesare resolved, spokeswoman Ann Forte said. Some have been there foryears.



In Chicago, the dismissal process moves faster and the 30 teacherswaiting for their cases to be resolved are assigned clerical tasks."They've got to be doing something," senior assistant general counselJames Ciesil said.

This article doesn't even address the teacher that shows up in the classroom, writes a page number on the white board, and just sits at their desk and stares out the window for the res of the class. We all had teachers like that too, at least you did if you went to public schools.



The fact is, good teachers don't need unions.

[quote name='Disappointed not surprised' date='08 February 2010 - 09:37 AM' timestamp='1265643476' post='112607']

Your tax dollars at work, THANKS teachers' Unions!









This article doesn't even address the teacher that shows up in the classroom, writes a page number on the white board, and just sits at their desk and stares out the window for the res of the class. We all had teachers like that too, at least you did if you went to public schools.



The fact is, good teachers don't need unions.

[/quote]



I sent my oldest son to a private school. Guess what? He had undereducated and undisciplined teachers. Guess What? I pulled him out of the school after one year, enrolled him in the local public school system. Guess what? Its now been 8 years and every teacher he's had has been a better teacher and I couldn't be happier. Guess What? They were all unionized. Part of the deal with the state is a requirement that states each teacher must take 3-6 credits in their area to keep licensure. Do you think that happens with private schools. NOPE!



Fact is most teachers whether they are unionized or not are really good to excellent teachers.

[quote name='steezer' date='08 February 2010 - 07:56 AM' timestamp='1265644576' post='112609']

Fact is most teachers whether they are unionized or not are really good to excellent teachers.

[/quote]

If your kid went to a crappy private school it is your fault for picking a crappy private school.





The fact is Unions make it nearly impossible to get rid of the bad teachers. Another fact is that teachers are very well compensated with a benefit package that includes excellent health care benefits, an enormous pension, innumerable holidays, relatively easy working hours, and 3 months a year vacation. If they aren't good or excellent at what they do they certainly don't deserve that gravy train. It defies reason to think that most teachers are good to excellent... is the teaching profession exempt from the bell curve?

[quote name='Disappointed not surprised' date='08 February 2010 - 12:56 PM' timestamp='1265651812' post='112636']

... The fact is Unions make it nearly impossible to get rid of the bad teachers. Another fact is that teachers are very well compensated with a benefit package that includes excellent health care benefits, an enormous pension, innumerable holidays, relatively easy working hours, and 3 months a year vacation. If they aren't good or excellent at what they do they certainly don't deserve that gravy train. It defies reason to think that most teachers are good to excellent... is the teaching profession exempt from the bell curve?

[/quote]

Are you serious!??!? Yes, the health benefits are good. Not great. But good. Holidays? Not so much. Not to mention that they get far fewer sick days than most jobs. The working hours for teachers - especially the higher grades - are a serious bitch. I'm lucky... I work in the private sector, and when I go home, I'm done with work for the day. My brother teaches high school math. Between all of his classes, he has about 80 students. If they all hand in their homework on a given day, and my brother irresponsibly spends no more than two minutes grading and correcting each one, that's over 2.5 hours of work OUTSIDE OF CLASS. And if he wants to do a good job, and actually show students where they made their mistakes, we're looking at time on top of that.



Then you have to spend time creating the homework assignments in the first place, putting together tests, grading tests, not to mention all the bullshit paperwork that goes along with all these things, but then, when you're all done, you're expected to tutor those having difficulty - outside of school hours.



Yes, there are some perks to being a teacher, but "relatively easy working hours" is NOT one of them.

[quote name='Djinn' date='04 February 2010 - 06:45 AM' timestamp='1265294725' post='110859']

It's not really a fair comparison. Most non-union teachers work for private schools, which have the right to cherry-pick their students to some extent. By contrast, public schools (with unionized teachers) are required by law to accept any child of age, regardless of whether that student is likely to bring down various metrics.

[/quote]



Good point.



I'm still leaning against unions. That they keep child molesting teachers on the payroll for years and take no responsibility or corrective action for it, puts me dead against the current union leadership, if not unions in general.



It's not like in the old days when companies were absolutely horrible to their staff. We have great protections in place now, a lot more oversight, and things like media that are hungry for the next corporate scandle story... so it really does for employees what unions were originaly designed for.



What I would like to see would be a situation were employers actively sought union staff because they were better skilled, safer, more efficient, etc... But that's obviously not the case. So, if unions aren't better employees, and their protection racket is no longer needed... why do they still exist?

[quote name='liberalman' date='08 February 2010 - 10:22 AM' timestamp='1265653365' post='112642']

I take it you have nver taught. Lets start with health bennies mine were better at the factory then at the school I worked at but I guess they were better then none...which is the case for many thanks to years of privatized medical insurance but I digress. As to the pension system I jad a standard 401k just as I have now as a librarian and just like my brother has now as a mainenance worker his is actually better then both of mine! Holidays they do get off but then again I get some off as well, so do most people with "professional" positions the only thing they get that I dont is a spring break. As to working hours when I taught I was at the school every day at 6AM and left every day no earlier then 4PM and usually followed that up with several hours of prep for the next day/ grading before getting some "me" time. Finally the 3 months off a year...sorry but most teachers use that time for REQUIRED enrichment and educational time. That is, getting and staying up to speed with the latest educational practices and learning how to jump through the hoops put in place by morons who have never taught a day in their life...ahem....have you ever taught? I thought not.

[/quote]



I live in California. The California Teachers' Association is the most powerful union in a State with an economy that is far greater than all but a half a dozen or so countries in the world. The Teachers' Unioin controls the Democratic legislature and much of State Politics. The Teachers' Unions are certainly enemies of all fiscal conservatives and/or Libertarians. Enemies. The compensation and benefits for teachers in California are excellent and exactly the way I stated them.



When ever I hear teachers talk about how over worked they are it makes me laugh out loud. Really. The "latest educational practices" rap is also entertaining!!! Let me guess, there is a new technique that inspires students to develop "Critical Thinking Skills" !!!!! WOW! I am so impressed! You must really be a magician that shapes little people's minds!



For the record, I have several friends that are teachers. I suspect they do a good job teaching. I also know their schedules quite intimately. If viewed from an annual perspective "over worked" is the very last thing that would come to mind. Come on, we all either have or had the school calender posted on our respective refrigerators. Over worked... Hahahaahahahahahahahahahaha!