Thread: Obama Better Not Pardon Bush & Cheney

Originally Posted by nonsqtr

There, fixed it for you.

You and your ilk of bush obsessed conspiracy nuts is one of the reasons why things in this Country so badly need to be fixed.

Originally Posted by johnlocke

The UN Treaty is the law of the land, second only to the constitution.

Darned supremacy clause!

LOL ! Law without consequence ? Multiple resolutions from a chamber full of poltician thugs from dictatorships and monarchies is hardly threatening enough for any rogue Nation to take seriously. Face it, the U.N is a joke and has been for a long time.

Originally Posted by Six

You and your ilk of bush obsessed conspiracy nuts is one of the reasons why things in this Country so badly need to be fixed.

Yes. The mere fact that there are people like me out here, NOTICING the following (when other people don't seem to either notice it, or want to FACE the TRUTH in these matters and look it squarely in the eye):

I want you to deny ANY of the following:

Our President is:

a) committing war crimes
b) trying to make himself IMMUNE from them
c) trying to EXCUSE himself from them by waving his hands over the law and DECLARING that they're legal
d) violating MULTIPLE international treaties, EACH of which has the force of law

And that's just for STARTERS!!!

Yeah pal, I would definitely say, it's a PROBLEM, and it needs to be FIXED.

Originally Posted by Six

LOL ! Law without consequence ? Multiple resolutions from a chamber full of poltician thugs from dictatorships and monarchies is hardly threatening enough for any rogue Nation to take seriously. Face it, the U.N is a joke and has been for a long time.

Quietly chuckles at the fact that Six fails to see the irony in disparaging the UN while trying to claim their resolution is a justification for unilateral US Military action in Iraq.okebrain:

Originally Posted by johnlocke

Quietly chuckles at the fact that Six fails to see the irony in disparaging the UN while trying to claim their resolution is a justification for unilateral US Military action in Iraq.okebrain:

I think the point is not that they pass the resolutions but that they fail to enforce them thus they become a joke. However the resolutions fully authorized any member state to enforce them by any means necessary.

We did.

Originally Posted by nonsqtr

Yes. The mere fact that there are people like me out here, NOTICING the following (when other people don't seem to either notice it, or want to FACE the TRUTH in these matters and look it squarely in the eye):

I want you to deny ANY of the following:

Our President is:

a) committing war crimes
b) trying to make himself IMMUNE from them
c) trying to EXCUSE himself from them by waving his hands over the law and DECLARING that they're legal
d) violating MULTIPLE international treaties, EACH of which has the force of law

And that's just for STARTERS!!!

Yeah pal, I would definitely say, it's a PROBLEM, and it needs to be FIXED.

So, no denials. Good. Maybe the Kool-Aid's startin' to wear off. That's a good thing. Look - there's probably a point in all this, that's MORE important than not pardoning Bush and Cheney.

What kind of foreign policy is it, that makes the US a pariah nation and gets us written up for war crimes and state sponsored terrorism?

Pal, I pride myself in being a citizen of the world. I want my country to be the NUMBER ONE citizen of the world - an EXAMPLE to all the rest.

If we ever get into a REAL war, we're gonna have serious problems. All this "war on terra" BS, is just... I dunno, it's some kinda larger version of a self-congratulation society, or somethin' like that. Yeah, rah rah, we're so great 'cause we can trample on a piss-ant little country halfway around the globe? Pal, the whole point in having nuclear weapons, is so you DON'T HAVE TO USE 'EM! Right? okebrain:

So, I want Obama to fix the foreign policy. The concept of bringing Bushie and his clowns to some kinda justice, is PART of that. It's not even the concept that these people "truly believed" that they were doin' the best thing for the US of A, it's more the idea that the world needs to know we're takin' care of our own, 'cause I mean, we got PLENTY of evil scum runnin' around this planet doin' stupid stuff, and ALL of that reflects directly back on Joe Homeowner.

Listen to me pal - let me tell you how the "threat level" goes up. Here's a gov that's "scooping" everything they hear on the 'net and on the 'phones and everywhere else - so now, here's a sea change in the political landscape, brought on by the actions of a wayward President, and suddenly there's HATRED in the air - EVERYWHERE! You got racists yellin' and screamin' about bein' unhappy, you got free enterprise types screamin' about bein' ripped off, you got people from the OTHER side gettin' power-happy and doin' stupid stuff.... so suddenly, the Echelon and Carnivore machines are picking up lots of words like "death" and "killing", so last week when the incidence stats came out it was 41,000 "death" and 17,000 "killing", and today it's 280,000 death and 517,000 "killing", and suddenly the authorities go, "woah... lookie... what's happenin' here...." and it gives them a reason to be PARANOID. And they're REALLY GOOD AT THAT!

And MEANWHILE, Russia and China are kickin' back looking at all this stuff, and they're just LAUGHING 'cause their number one enemy is so confused and disorganized. So, suddenly THEY'RE all chattering too - "hey, lookit the dumb clowns over there, they're all confused and disorganized, maybe we oughta go in and kick their asses", and now we have even MORE threat level.

And the whole thing, is just 'cause we're bein' STUPID! We're running around doin' STUPID stuff like this and this :blah: when we really oughta be doin' this: :dunno:

So, I'm hoping that a fresh set of brain cells at a high level will bring some clarity to this equation.

I'm actually countin' on Michelle for some clarity too. She seems to me, like the PERFECT person, to bring a great deal of clarity to this equation!

Originally Posted by Bourne

In order to pardon someone that person must first be convicted of a crime. Bush hasn't, and won't.

Therefore no need for a pardon.

tell that to the telecoms....

Originally Posted by Stinger

I think the point is not that they pass the resolutions but that they fail to enforce them thus they become a joke. However the resolutions fully authorized any member state to enforce them by any means necessary.

We did.

I think the point is that the UN did not authorize an invasion of Iraq and that the United States acted in violation of the UN Treaty. I suspect that the underlying point is that you can't, credibly, argue that the UN resolutions justify the actions of this administration while disparaging the UN, ignoring their decision NOT to invade, and their active opposition to the invasion by the US. It's akin to citing Bozo the Clown as your authority for doing something. If they are your authority (on an issue), then you implicitly agree to respecting their decision (and decision making process). Can't have it both ways.

Originally Posted by nonsqtr

I'm actually countin' on Michelle for some clarity too. She seems to me, like the PERFECT person, to bring a great deal of clarity to this equation!

Michelle to Bushie-Cons:




:laughing:

Originally Posted by johnlocke

I think the point is that the UN did not authorize an invasion of Iraq and that the United States acted in violation of the UN Treaty.

As far as we were concerned they did the the resolutions were clear as I have stated. Beyond that the UN security council had been bribed by Saddam and we knew it.

I suspect that the underlying point is that you can't, credibly, argue that the UN resolutions justify the actions

Yes we can and at the same time point out that the UN had been corrupted and rufused to enforce it's own resolutions so, as the resolutions allowed, did.

The United Nations Security Council, stated in Resolution 1441 issued on on Nov. 8, 2002:

"Recognizing the threat Iraq's noncompliance with Council resolutions and proliferation of weapons of mass destruction and long-range missiles poses to international peace and security,
Recalling that its resolution 678 (1990) authorizes Member States to use all necessary means to uphold and implement its resolution 660 (1990) of 2 August 1990 and all relevant resolutions subsequent to Resolution 660 (1990) and to restore international peace and security in the area...
Deploring also that the Government of Iraq has failed to comply with its commitments pursuant to resolution 687 (1991) with regard to terrorism, pursuant to resolution 688 (1991) to end repression of its civilian population and to provide access by international humanitarian organizations to all those in need of assistance in Iraq, and pursuant resolutions 686 (1991), 687 (1991), and 1284 (1999) to return or cooperate in accounting for Kuwait and third country nationals wrongly detained by Iraq, or to return Kuwaiti property wrongfully seized by Iraq...
Acting under Chapter VII of the Charter of the United Nations,
1. Decides that Iraq has been and remains in material breach of its obligations under relevant resolutions, including resolution 687 (1991), in particular through Iraq's failure to cooperate with United Nations inspectors and the IAEA, and to complete the actions required under paragraphs 8 to 13 of resolution 687 (1991)..."


Nov. 8, 2002 - United Nations (UN)
United Nations Resolution 1441 (58 KB)