Thread: Something to keep in mind tonight, debate, and till the end

The Rich Pay Their Fair Share

They would still shoulder the burden under the McCain plan.



...According to the Tax Policy Center, a joint venture between the Urban Institute and Brookings Institution, around 78% of the McCain tax cut would accrue to the top fifth of income earners, with almost 30% going to the highest 1%. This seems inequitable on its face, a point the Obama campaign and the press focus on.
But can we conclude that the rich would pay too little taxes under the McCain plan? Not really, because most media reports do not reveal the resulting share of the tax burden borne by the highest earners.
As it happens, the top fifth of earners currently pay 67% of all federal taxes -- including not just income taxes, but payroll taxes, corporate taxes and death taxes. The top 1% of earners pay 26% of all federal taxes.
If the McCain proposal were passed, the top fifth would actually pay a greater share of total federal taxes and the top 1%'s share would decline by only 0.3%. In other words, high earners carry the vast majority of the federal tax burden and, despite what the media portrays as a shift from Scandinavian egalitarianism to Latin American inequity, would continue to do so under Mr. McCain's plan.
The fact that high earners pay the vast majority of all federal taxes will come as a surprise to most Americans, who believe the middle class bears the tax burden while the rich get off scot free. A 2007 Gallup poll found that 66% of Americans believe upper-income people pay too little federal income taxes. Media reports play into these beliefs by focusing on how the candidates' plans would change the tax code, not on what the tax code would look like after those changes took place.............


As it happens, the McCain proposal would maintain current income tax rates and lower corporate taxes to help American businesses -- which ultimately provide American jobs and pay American wages -- compete in a global economy. By contrast, the Obama plan would increase marginal income tax rates on high earners and raise taxes on capital gains and dividends, with the likely effect of contracting labor supply, reducing rewards for saving, and increasing incentives to avoid taxes. All but the very lowest income Americans would face higher marginal tax rates under the Obama plan than the McCain proposal."


The Rich Pay Their Fair Share - WSJ.com


So when Obama claims he will make the tax system "fair" without defining what "fair" is, and if he repeats what he said in previous debates, that it's not about increasing reveneus it is about making it "fair", I challenge any of the Obama supporters so state what "fair" is, where is the "unfairness" now?


Else admit it is about class warfare and wealth distribution.

Originally Posted by Stinger

The Rich Pay Their Fair Share

They would still shoulder the burden under the McCain plan.



...According to the Tax Policy Center, a joint venture between the Urban Institute and Brookings Institution, around 78% of the McCain tax cut would accrue to the top fifth of income earners, with almost 30% going to the highest 1%. This seems inequitable on its face, a point the Obama campaign and the press focus on.
But can we conclude that the rich would pay too little taxes under the McCain plan? Not really, because most media reports do not reveal the resulting share of the tax burden borne by the highest earners.
As it happens, the top fifth of earners currently pay 67% of all federal taxes -- including not just income taxes, but payroll taxes, corporate taxes and death taxes. The top 1% of earners pay 26% of all federal taxes.
If the McCain proposal were passed, the top fifth would actually pay a greater share of total federal taxes and the top 1%'s share would decline by only 0.3%. In other words, high earners carry the vast majority of the federal tax burden and, despite what the media portrays as a shift from Scandinavian egalitarianism to Latin American inequity, would continue to do so under Mr. McCain's plan.
The fact that high earners pay the vast majority of all federal taxes will come as a surprise to most Americans, who believe the middle class bears the tax burden while the rich get off scot free. A 2007 Gallup poll found that 66% of Americans believe upper-income people pay too little federal income taxes. Media reports play into these beliefs by focusing on how the candidates' plans would change the tax code, not on what the tax code would look like after those changes took place.............


As it happens, the McCain proposal would maintain current income tax rates and lower corporate taxes to help American businesses -- which ultimately provide American jobs and pay American wages -- compete in a global economy. By contrast, the Obama plan would increase marginal income tax rates on high earners and raise taxes on capital gains and dividends, with the likely effect of contracting labor supply, reducing rewards for saving, and increasing incentives to avoid taxes. All but the very lowest income Americans would face higher marginal tax rates under the Obama plan than the McCain proposal."


The Rich Pay Their Fair Share - WSJ.com


So when Obama claims he will make the tax system "fair" without defining what "fair" is, and if he repeats what he said in previous debates, that it's not about increasing reveneus it is about making it "fair", I challenge any of the Obama supporters so state what "fair" is, where is the "unfairness" now?


Else admit it is about class warfare and wealth distribution.

I think the bailouts gave us wealth distribution and class welfare, that said, Obama's fair tax is anything but. However whoever wins, taxes will need to be raised on corporations. Do not give me any shit how lower taxes help create jobs, hell we have had 5 straight months of major job losses and were just getting started, not to mention that with all the out sourcing and other tax cuts this country is broke, hell one might say bankrupt.

Originally Posted by michaelr

I think the bailouts gave us wealth distribution and class welfare,

If you don't think wealthy people are being wiped out by this you got blinders on.

that said, Obama's fair tax is anything but.

I agree, I wish someone who supports it would explain what fair is.

However whoever wins, taxes will need to be raised on corporations.

The absolute worst thing that could be done, there go jobs and investment and the capital will go to tax avoidence investments.

Do not give me any shit how lower taxes help create jobs,

I know the truth hurts but there it is.

hell we have had 5 straight months of major job losses and were just getting started,

Yeah, because capital is drying up and you want to dry it up even more, great plan.

Originally Posted by Stinger

The Rich Pay Their Fair Share

They would still shoulder the burden under the McCain plan.



...According to the Tax Policy Center, a joint venture between the Urban Institute and Brookings Institution, around 78% of the McCain tax cut would accrue to the top fifth of income earners, with almost 30% going to the highest 1%. This seems inequitable on its face, a point the Obama campaign and the press focus on.
But can we conclude that the rich would pay too little taxes under the McCain plan? Not really, because most media reports do not reveal the resulting share of the tax burden borne by the highest earners.
As it happens, the top fifth of earners currently pay 67% of all federal taxes -- including not just income taxes, but payroll taxes, corporate taxes and death taxes. The top 1% of earners pay 26% of all federal taxes.
If the McCain proposal were passed, the top fifth would actually pay a greater share of total federal taxes and the top 1%'s share would decline by only 0.3%. In other words, high earners carry the vast majority of the federal tax burden and, despite what the media portrays as a shift from Scandinavian egalitarianism to Latin American inequity, would continue to do so under Mr. McCain's plan.
The fact that high earners pay the vast majority of all federal taxes will come as a surprise to most Americans, who believe the middle class bears the tax burden while the rich get off scot free. A 2007 Gallup poll found that 66% of Americans believe upper-income people pay too little federal income taxes. Media reports play into these beliefs by focusing on how the candidates' plans would change the tax code, not on what the tax code would look like after those changes took place.............


As it happens, the McCain proposal would maintain current income tax rates and lower corporate taxes to help American businesses -- which ultimately provide American jobs and pay American wages -- compete in a global economy. By contrast, the Obama plan would increase marginal income tax rates on high earners and raise taxes on capital gains and dividends, with the likely effect of contracting labor supply, reducing rewards for saving, and increasing incentives to avoid taxes. All but the very lowest income Americans would face higher marginal tax rates under the Obama plan than the McCain proposal."


The Rich Pay Their Fair Share - WSJ.com


So when Obama claims he will make the tax system "fair" without defining what "fair" is, and if he repeats what he said in previous debates, that it's not about increasing reveneus it is about making it "fair", I challenge any of the Obama supporters so state what "fair" is, where is the "unfairness" now?


Else admit it is about class warfare and wealth distribution.

Wo, an editorial! That is the awesomest proof ever!

Originally Posted by michaelr

I think the bailouts gave us wealth distribution and class welfare, that said, Obama's fair tax is anything but. However whoever wins, taxes will need to be raised on corporations. Do not give me any shit how lower taxes help create jobs, hell we have had 5 straight months of major job losses and were just getting started, not to mention that with all the out sourcing and other tax cuts this country is broke, hell one might say bankrupt.

Right.

We absolutely have to raise corporate taxes.

Why?

Because that's the easiest way of getting tax money out of the middle and lower classes without them seeing it.

What do you people think a business does when confronted with an additional cost burden?

Damn straight, he raises prices.

If his price environment is too inflexible and he can't raise prices, he either eats margin, shows a smaller profit and pays less tax, or he goes out of business.

So the rich don't get taxed when the corporations are taxed, the middle class gets taxed.

And just how much tax money does the government raise after the business fails?

NEVER tax business. It's just stupid.

Originally Posted by Freedom for All

So the rich don't get taxed when the corporations are taxed, the middle class gets taxed.

And just how much tax money does the government raise after the business fails?

NEVER tax business. It's just stupid.

I agree, so tax the hell out of the top 10% in this country.
Problem solved.

Originally Posted by Stinger

But can we conclude that the rich would pay too little taxes under the McCain plan? Not really, because most media reports do not reveal the resulting share of the tax burden borne by the highest earners.

I conclude that everyone will pay too much taxes under the McBama plan.

Originally Posted by Freedom for All

Right.

We absolutely have to raise corporate taxes.

Why?

Because that's the easiest way of getting tax money out of the middle and lower classes without them seeing it.

What do you people think a business does when confronted with an additional cost burden?

Damn straight, he raises prices.

If his price environment is too inflexible and he can't raise prices, he either eats margin, shows a smaller profit and pays less tax, or he goes out of business.

So the rich don't get taxed when the corporations are taxed, the middle class gets taxed.

And just how much tax money does the government raise after the business fails?

NEVER tax business. It's just stupid.

So where's your proof that the lowered taxes on the middle class won't allow for higher prices AND more savings? Oh, that's right, it's entirely possible.

"Never tax business." Who the fuck do you work for, I always wonder.

I watched the debate, well most, their plans suck ass. Where is the incentive to save...

You know what, this is shit, the bailout is to allow more, faster, easier loans. Shit dumb asses this is called perpetual debt with everything included, taxes on nothing, fees, rates what ever, this is what got us into this mess. As a nation we have zero savings. Man if I were to do a socialist program then it would be wrapped around your ability to save, not get deeper in debt. Where are your so called leaders here.

Originally Posted by michaelr

I watched the debate, well most, their plans suck ass. Where is the incentive to save...

You know what, this is shit, the bailout is to allow more, faster, easier loans. Shit dumb asses this is called perpetual debt with everything included, taxes on nothing, fees, rates what ever, this is what got us into this mess. As a nation we have zero savings. Man if I were to do a socialist program then it would be wrapped around your ability to save, not get deeper in debt. Where are your so called leaders here.

This IS their idea of leadership. Get everyone so far in debt that they can criminalize us all. Then every American will have to bend over and take whatever perverted policies come down the pipe like a big girl because the alternative will be far, far worse. Worst yet, some of you will still get in my face and yammer on about our freedom and how we're winning like the practiced, shameless whores you are.

Revolt, or die. The sooner the better.