Thread: 911 Anniversary

Originally Posted by Blueneck

I apologize for offending you and my sympathies to everyone who actually was affected by this.

What bothers me is the choreographed ceremonial bullshit that goes on with these anniversary things. It's contrived, designed to wrench a tear from the eyes of the spectator. Doesn't that bother you?

And the NK MTV reference wasn't that far off the mark. They are, without a doubt the most patriotic people on earth, and look how fucked up they are.

Blind patriotism, the glamorization and romantization of tragedies like 911 are, IMO, how a country eventually becomes North Korea.

This thing happened mainly because the people in charge were negligent. And better radios probably would have saved the lives of many of the fallen firefighters. I'd prefer to see an update on that, than all this schmaltzy crap.

What have we actually accomplished in preventing another 911?

My apologies. I wasn't trying to infer you offended me. Just thought the comparison was somewhat misplaced.

And yes, blind patriotism is a most dangerous thing. Read my sig and you'll see that I agree.

As for Guiliani's lack of proper command structure, not updating of radios, building the emergency center in the #1 target so he could more easily boink his girlfriend, etc.......there is prolly no one besides Bush with as much blood on their hands.

The Loose Change creators Dylan Avery and Jason Bermas debate James Meigs and David Dunbar of Popular Mechanics about 9-11.

Democracy Now! | EXCLUSIVE...9/11 Debate: Loose Change Filmmakers vs. Popular Mechanics Editors of "Debunking 9/11 Myths"

Originally Posted by michaelr

And so many unanswered questions, hell the "answered" questions are so full of holes, and missing information that one should be ashamed for believing it. Yes the terrorist who hate our freedoms continue to attack us, then wrap themselves in the flag posing as our saviors.

Significant New Information Details CIA Criminal Culpability in Allowing the 9/11 Attacks!

I do not beleive conspiricy theories. They did not allow anything. The Clinton administration so weakened our intelligence it was surprising that they knew where to find the coffee let alone murderous Muslims, hell, the differant agencies could not talk to one another. Its a wonder that it was not worse.

Originally Posted by Bluegrass

The Loose Change creators Dylan Avery and Jason Bermas debate James Meigs and David Dunbar of Popular Mechanics about 9-11.

Democracy Now! | EXCLUSIVE...9/11 Debate: Loose Change Filmmakers vs. Popular Mechanics Editors of "Debunking 9/11 Myths"

I will continue to watch this BG, I have seen it before, but it is worth my time to see it again. I can sit here and debunk both sides, but mostly I can shred through the PM myth. The cell phones, flight 93, the pentagon is a no brainer, me thinks they should stick to lawn mower repair and building canoes in the basement. I love it when people use their "evidence" in a debate, I use the FBI, NTSB, and others to debunk the hell out of it. Anyway I hope the mods do not move this thread, the subject need....nay I say....screams for serious debate among us, the people who have every aspect of their lives affected by 911. Thanks for the link!!

Originally Posted by Blueneck

Had nobody ever considered highjacked planes as weapons?

Apparently someone did.

In 1997, the US Department of Justice and FEMA, the Federal Emergency Management Agency published this self-study course with this cover.

"We get all kinds of manuals here at my agency, this one came from FEMA. Notice the date on Emergency Response to Terror - June 1999. After 9-11, we got a notice from FEMA to tear the covers off of all of these." Harry Hagedorn on Jeff Rense His cover shows a later date of June 1999.

Edit:

Hey Ronin, Obama wont like that post!

Originally Posted by Ronin Tetsuro

Apparently someone did.

At some point between 1991 and 2001, a regional NORAD sector holds an exercise simulating a foreign hijacked airliner crashing into a prominent building in the United States, the identity of which is classified. According to military officials, the building is not the World Trade Center or the Pentagon. The exercise involves some flying of military aircraft, plus a “command post exercise� where communication procedures are rehearsed in an office environment. [CNN, 4/19/2004]

Numerous training exercises are held around the US, based on the scenario of terrorist attacks that involve aircraft hijackings. Richard Clarke, the counterterrorism “tsar� from 1998 until October 2001, will later testify that, before 9/11: “In many, many cities and probably most metropolitan areas, the FBI had worked with the state and local authorities to plan responses to certain kinds of terrorist attacks. We then held a series of exercises around the country. For example, on weapons of mass destruction attacks, we had had a whole series of exercises about hijackings of aircraft.� [US Congress, 6/11/2002 ] Further details of these exercises, such as the specific period over which they occur, are unstated. According to a 1999 report by the General Accounting Office, between June 1995 and June 1998 the FBI leads 24 training exercises in which “some state and local organizations� also participate. These exercises include various scenarios including, among others, “aircraft hijackings� and “terrorist attacks.� [United States General Accounting Office, 6/25/1999, pp. 1 and 41 ]

Counterterrorism “tsar� Richard Clarke chairs a tabletop exercise at the White House, involving a scenario where anti-American militants fill a Learjet with explosives, and then fly it on a suicide mission toward a target in Washington, DC. Officials from the Pentagon, Secret Service, and FAA attend, and are asked how they would stop such a threat. Pentagon officials say they could launch fighters from Langley Air Force Base, Virginia, but would need authorization from the president to shoot the plane down, and currently there is no system to do this. The 9/11 Commission later states: “There was no clear resolution of the problem at the exercise.� [Slate, 7/22/2004; 9/11 Commission, 7/24/2004, pp. 345, 457-458]

http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?before_9/11=militaryExercises&timeline=complete_911_timelin e

I, as a rational human being, faced with the mountain of evidence, outright REFUSE to believe the "we could not have known" horseshit fed to the public in the aftermath.

I'm sorry, I can't do it.

Originally Posted by michaelr

Hey Ronin, Obama wont like that post!

Tim Ossman and his CIA pals should be tried for crimes against humanity.

Originally Posted by michaelr

Anyway I hope the mods do not move this thread, the subject need....nay I say....screams for serious debate among us, the people who have every aspect of their lives affected by 911. Thanks for the link!!

The mods should not move it, because it has everything to do with U.S. politics. Also, it is a valid debate, especially considering the 9-11 report has gaping holes. This isn't just stuff pulled out of thin air.

No problem!

Originally Posted by Tick

I do not beleive conspiricy theories. They did not allow anything. The Clinton administration so weakened our intelligence it was surprising that they knew where to find the coffee let alone murderous Muslims, hell, the differant agencies could not talk to one another. Its a wonder that it was not worse.

You say you don't believe in conspiracy theories, then start the usual partisan attacks on Clinton and Democrats. When will you accept that Bush and Clinton both miserably failed the American people? If you can't see that basic truth, then how can you be credible on anything?