What exactly is wrong with helping haiti?

**Bluegrass** · 17th January 2010 01:10 PM

[quote name='Dr.Knuckles' date='17 January 2010 - 03:06 PM' timestamp='1263758762' post='100714']

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

That's exactly what I'm talking about. There is simply no way to look at the world and see anything as black and white. If I responded to a 911 call and there was one person who was bad and one person who was a victim I would be be so stunned I would be talking about it for the rest of the year. I would be floored by the near impossibility of that actually happening.

[/quote]

No "genius" has ever seen the world in black in white.

Save that post for me, will you?

**Vortex** · 17th January 2010 01:10 PM

[quote name='Feslin' date='17 January 2010 - 01:54 PM' timestamp='1263758076' post='100703']

I'm not "relying solely on the black and white of my books".

I agree with that idea that an action is either right or wrong. I have a moral code. I would have one with or without my books.

Oh, I understand now.

The terrorists are gonna conquer Haiti and use it as an invasion point.

I was talking about Haitians (reading comprehension skills are lacking in this place), and I merely said that it's evil for their government to take money from it's own people and give it to us.

Actually, I fully believe the government should be concerned with their welfare, just to a different point than you believe.

[/quote]

Your "right or wrong" is skewed by your books. You cannot even keep it straight on this forum.

Is a government supposed to help its destitute citizens? If you think it is, why do you believe levying taxes to be used for the general welfare of the citizens is wrong?

The Haiti government understood that it was a citizen of the world and that, when people were suffering after Katrina, it had a moral duty to try to help, to try to give back to the USA as the USA had given to Haiti.

Why do we have a base in Cuba?

Yes, Haiti is vulnerable and it's location makes it imperative that the USA help it. We could leave it as we did Afghanistan after the war with the Soviets but you know what happened then.

**steezer** · 17th January 2010 01:29 PM

[quote name='Feslin' date='17 January 2010 - 01:03 PM' timestamp='1263755027' post='100659']

That's the one true thing you've said this entire thread.

LOL!

You're terrible at this, you know that?

What is this?

Hint: That reply doesn't fit the question. Maybe you should try actually reading what you're replying to.

Oh, wait you're right. I meant my life experiences are more important than yours. Based on the evidence I see you give here.

EDIT: It's "definitely", by the way.

The first time you were actually correct about something. How does it feel?

[/quote]

Oh, Oh I'm in trouble now. Feslin just went predictable on me again.

**steezer** · 17th January 2010 01:32 PM

[quote name='Feslin' date='17 January 2010 - 01:15 PM' timestamp='1263755717' post='100675']

Oddly, I don't see you admonishing others for their insults.

Don't pretend there isn't another factor at play here.

[/quote]

If you consider the truth in response to your nonsense and insults based on your pseudo intellect then I'm guilty as charged. I think its time to rethink your approach because it basically shows you living in world that doesn't exist.

**Feslin** · 17th January 2010 02:08 PM

[quote name='Dr.Knuckles' date='17 January 2010 - 08:08 PM' timestamp='1263758931' post='100716']But when you're standing next to the person who needs the help, it becomes irrelevant.[/quote]

So, you're saying that emotional attachment changes your opinion of moral action?

Yeah, I know, that's the problem.

**Feslin** · 17th January 2010 02:09 PM

[quote name='Dr.Knuckles' date='17 January 2010 - 08:06 PM' timestamp='1263758762' post='100714']

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

That's exactly what I'm talking about. There is simply no way to look at the world and see anything as black and white. If I responded to a 911 call and there was one person who was bad and one person who was a victim I would be be so stunned I would be talking about it for the rest of the year. I would be floored by the near impossibility of that actually happening.

There are only four places anywhere where things are black and white; TV, movies, video games and books. And when your entire life experience is based on those the real world is so alien you can't even conceive of it. Not even a shadow of it.

The people who have dedicated their lives to emergency management and relief say "this is a necessary use of resources". The people who have lived through disasters say "this is a necessary use of resources". The people who have been near the people who have lived through disasters say "this is a necessary use of resources". The people who have 6 different video game consuls and have never once been hungry or hopeless, have never lost a loved one, have never been scared, have never needed help, have never given help, have never seen a dead body, have never seen a victim pull through, have never failed at something important, have never sacrificed and have never held someone who has just lost everything and everyone they had - they alone don't get it. That's fine. Nobody expects them to.

Sadly - they are also the single most important demographic for TV, movies and books that reflect nothing but the tiny fraction of reality their target audience can understand and relate to.

[/quote]

We take different meaning from the statement "the world is black and white", I believe.

What does it mean to you?

It means to me, as I've stated in another post, that something is one thing or it's not. It's the most basic rule of the universe: A is A.

**Fishmint** · 17th January 2010 02:20 PM

[quote name='Conservative15' date='17 January 2010 - 03:58 PM' timestamp='1263743920' post='100591']

The problem I have with your race card playing is that it makes the race card meaningless (for times of REAL racial discrimination) when you use it in situations that don't warrant it.

The race card seems to be played in way too many situations when an issue seems to be black people vs. white people. It's unfair to label people racists when there could me multiple other reasons for not wanting to send aid to Haiti.

[/quote]

I agree with this to some extent. Americans have actually been very generous in response to the crisis. However, I think if they were white, the response would be different. People are kind of used to black people suffering and thus have become somewhat desensitized, as terrible as that sounds.

**boontito** · 17th January 2010 02:45 PM

[quote name='Bluegrass' date='17 January 2010 - 12:10 PM' timestamp='1263759052' post='100719']

No "genius" has ever seen the world in black in white.

Save that post for me, will you?

[/quote]

Actually, quite a few "geniuses" probably see the world in black and white terms. Very few geniuses do though.

Though I don't think Feslin is a genius, I have no doubt that he is a "genius".

**kmiller1610** · 17th January 2010 04:29 PM

[quote name='The_Bear' date='17 January 2010 - 02:29 PM' timestamp='1263756541' post='100688']

By saying that the Government should keep out of these humanitarian missions is to say that the Government exists outside of religion My faith tells me that there is nothing, save for a few things (murder, adultery, idolatry, etc) that falls outside of faith.[/quote]

I think that using force for religious purposes is exactly the same as trying to meet humanitarian needs for religious purposes. Plan for it. Vote on it. Pass spending. Do it. If you don't, then you are indulging in too much faith for governmental purposes.

The fact that we have forgotten to add shows we have "established" religion at the federal level.

And I never said we should keep out of it. I think we need intention, planning and rational commitment to our common goals. The way things work now, if it's on TV, we are compelled to act. We don't add. We don't think. We don't set goals. We don't budget. There is no rational basis for anything.

**Vortex** · 17th January 2010 04:38 PM

[quote name='kmiller1610' date='17 January 2010 - 05:29 PM' timestamp='1263770983' post='100801']

I think that using force for religious purposes is exactly the same as trying to meet humanitarian needs for religious purposes. Plan for it. Vote on it. Pass spending. Do it. If you don't, then you are indulging in too much faith for governmental purposes.

The fact that we have forgotten to add shows we have "established" religion at the federal level.

And I never said we should keep out of it. I think we need intention, planning and rational commitment to our common goals. The way things work now, if it's on TV, we are compelled to act. We don't add. We don't think. We don't set goals. We don't budget. There is no rational basis for anything.

[/quote]

You are mistaken.

In the past there was not immediate coverage or attention to how the USA, the government, acted or responded.

Hell, there wasn't even immediate coverage of the disasters or the events that needed a response.

There are goals set, just because you don't agree with them, understand them or even know them doesn't mean they are not set.

Atheists can be humanitarians. The religious are not the only humans who believe in doing what is right as members of the human race. Humanitarian actions are not always religious actions though the humanitarian actions may coincide with religious purpose.

edited to add: I know many athetists that are more humanitarian than a good many religious folks. And there are a good many religious people who do not qualify as humanitarians.

.