Thread: Why Conservatives & Liberals Must Vie for Power

Political philosophy in the United States has all but disappeared as a matter of theory, replaced instead by a national clamoring to get government to do our bidding in a kind of Democratic hysteria. There seems to be no solid principles upon which the US Government is kept in check by the people, who, in an attempt to keep with the times, find themselves desperate to keep their representatives in power in order to shape the direction of ever growing federal authority. The people never stop to ask, by what right does the government continue to grow and regulate and tax every aspect of their lives. Instead, they consent out of either greed, fear, or ignorance, opting rather to use the hammer and chisel of federal power to define for themselves and their countrymen their rights and liberties as Americans.

The United States was not founded as a Democracy, but as a Constitutional Republic, for the purpose of preserving the liberty of the people by subjecting Government to the rule of law. Yet, over the years the Constitution has been eroded by a nefarious national acceptance of subjectivism and relativism with regards to the interpretation of nearly every Constitutional article. We hear the Constitution discussed as a “living, breathing document” as if our liberties and rights and protection from the Government is something that ought to be redefined with the times; as if freedom then somehow relied upon different principles than freedom now.

In fact, there seems to be no tribute paid to the political principles of liberty as defined by the Constitution for the protection of individuals against the power of The State. Over the years, we’ve accepted that in times of national emergency or in the presence of social disharmony, that the government should have the authority to manufacture regulations to keep the country moving “forward” (however that subjective direction may be defined). As an alternative, we have become a people who have filled the intentional void of political power in the Constitution with Government. Whatever question arises that is undefined by the Constitution is assumed to be a political “no man’s land” for the federal government, to decide on the basis of popular opinion or the national good how the government should rule on these Constitutionally unaddressed questions. When it was the purpose of the Constitution to limit the Federal Government to those areas only prescribed to it through the Constitution.

Our opposition to this political principle has been disastrous and it seems nearly impossible to imagine a day when the federal government would be held to powers enumerated to it specifically by the Constitution and prohibited to rule or legislate on matters left unaddressed. That which went unaddressed was supposed to be left up to the liberty of the people, who have, stupidly, deferred those liberties back to the government, sacrificing the only real political power they have. Now, finding ourselves dependent upon the good will and graces of our commanding Federal Establishment, we are all that much more desperate to control it. This is the cause for the great fear of our age, that our political rivals would control the Beast into which our government has evolved.

We always want to blame the conservates/liberals, the republicans/ democrats, whatever, but as you eluded to, the fault lies at the feet of the people. People for whatever reason quit fighting and relinquished many of their rights. We will never return to those times.

Originally Posted by metheron

We always want to blame the conservates/liberals, the republicans/ democrats, whatever, but as you eluded to, the fault lies at the feet of the people. People for whatever reason quit fighting and relinquished many of their rights. We will never return to those times.

And I don't see what's wrong with the nation evolving. It was DESIGNED to evolve.

Originally Posted by Davocrat

And I don't see what's wrong with the nation evolving. It was DESIGNED to evolve.

Well I agree to a point. BG made some good points, freedom then is the same as freedom now, etc......so did it have to evolve? No. With the exceptions being what is outlined in the Constitution, the country could, and did, go wherever the people took it. It was designed to let the people do with it what they choose, apparently, through action or inaction they chose for it to evolve.

Originally Posted by Burning Giraffe

That which went unaddressed was supposed to be left up to the liberty of the people, who have, stupidly, deferred those liberties back to the government*, sacrificing the only real political power they have. Now, finding ourselves dependent upon the good will and graces of our commanding Federal Establishment, we are all that much more desperate to control it. This is the cause for the great fear of our age, that our political rivals would control the Beast into which our government has evolved.

You do make a compelling point, but there were fierce rivalries at and after the founding. Maybe not described as liberal and conservative, but bitter rivals, nevertheless.

And were the founders really that much wiser and purer of principle than we are today?

What's often overlooked in these discussions is the simple fact that we had a couple million people in 1780 and we have 300,000,000 now.

For our government to stay as elegantly simple as it was at its inception is unrealistic.

*One specific question: How have we "stupidly deferred" liberties back to the federal government?

Originally Posted by bla in 2007

Our society now raises consumers, not providers. Consumerism molds
children through media and schooling to receive ideas instead of have
them. First the ideas were economic (to buy more), but since this kind
of relationship of society to the individual has become the new paradigm
political/social interaction has fallowed suit.
Many otherwise intelligent people now see governance as just another
product or service, one that simply requires them to choose a brand.

While people complain about the service they are getting, or its quality
compared to advertised claims, the sense that it is up to the individual
to offer original content of their own is fading.

Now a dialog on issues is reduced to sound bites, and campaigns more
resemble a season of American Idol.

People now are far too comfortable, and feel too anonymous, to become
deeply involved with politics.

Originally Posted by bla bla

People now are far too comfortable, and feel too anonymous, to become
deeply involved with politics...

FROM 2007...

Many otherwise intelligent people now see governance as just another
product or service, one that simply requires them to choose a brand.

That's very astute.

While people complain about the service they are getting, or its quality
compared to advertised claims, the sense that it is up to the individual
to offer original content of their own is fading.

You could argue that self-publishing is exploding via the Internet. Anyone can be a pundit. Not that that actually changes anything. But there is evidence that significant thousands of people are thinking about government and sharing their thoughts. My bet would be that it's probably the same numbers as always, only it's more of a broadcast than the old days of letters to editors and diner bull sessions. On the other hand, you could argue that the ease and anonymity of the net has helped more people find their inner rabble rouser.

Now a dialog on issues is reduced to sound bites, and campaigns more
resemble a season of American Idol.

Yes, indeed. But I see a more Marshall McCluhan rationale for this than a case of Americans abdicating their liberty to government. Media has become as big and powerful as government. Every now and then somebody figures out how to use a small piece of it as an effective tool (e.g., Rove and Fox News), but in general, I'm of the opinion that media has a life of its own.

The majority of Americans don't blog or even take time out their otherwise productive business day (like I am right now) to compose debates on boards about these issues. Not that this makes me a better citizen, mind you, I'm probably just a bit obsessive-compulsive and codependent. Media provides a convenience that fits around busy lives.

Sometimes I think all the hyper-real-time information overload of the Internet and 24/7 news is counter-productive to being truly informed, since huge chunks of it are worthless (propaganda, innuendo, bad reporting, simply wrong, etc.).

Basically, I don't agree that American's have handed over the reins to big government any more in 2008 than they did or didn't do in 1808. Everything has simply gotten bigger and more complicated.

If liberals are guilty of hokey idealism of the human spirit, libertarians are guilty sometimes of mythologizing the founders and the Constitution itself and maybe they overlook the accidental genius of the document that has allowed it to bend and adapt to exponentially growing society.

Originally Posted by bla bla

People now are far too comfortable, and feel too anonymous, to become
deeply involved with politics.

good point, but as davo pointed out, as i have in the past, with 300 million people here, isn't that going to happen? i mean is that "the peoples" fault that they feel anonymous? its like blaming a student that goes to ohio state that they feel lost in the sea of other students. sure that student could do more to feel like they're an important part of the university, but with 60k students, its going to be tough, and not the fault of the student.

with the birth of youtube and similiar vehicles, it will be interesting to see how the "individual" becomes possibly less anonymous, in all aspects of american life, but especially in politics.

Originally Posted by Davocrat

And I don't see what's wrong with the nation evolving. It was DESIGNED to evolve.

I get skeptical when persons like BG wax poetic on the "why can't we all get along" theme. True as far as it goes. Thing is, to get along, the right wants everyone to go along with their agenda, discussion and compromise isn't in their dictionary or psyche and hasn't been since Nixon. This will not change this time either.

The only question I have about this:
burning giraffe; would you prefer war or peace in your society?