Thread: A Constant Push

So I was thinking about liberty and corruption.

Now I was not alive when our founding father's created this great nation, nor was anybody else today OBVIOUSLY...so that means no one can really say what life was like and what the government was like for sure.

I sense, however, that there was much less corruption in the government. So how did it get to this?

I was reading a newsletter sent from the Director of the Libertarian Party...

"...I would like to give the following words to those who stubbornly continue their fight to change the corrupt and destructive Republican or Democrat parties from within."

Hmm...ok well we did not start out as either Republican nor Democratic for parties in control...so again...how did it get to this?

Then I read this quote in the newsletter by founder father Samuel Adams...

"If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." – Samuel Adams, 1776

Now one thing that popped into my mind was that...these guys say they were prepared to constantly push for liberty. Never compromising.

I think after America got pretty comfortable to live in...people got comfortable. And when they got comfortable, they started being ok with the government getting bigger and bigger.

In my mind...the larger a government gets the more liberty it takes.

Granted society has changed quite a bit since the 1700s and we cannot reasonably have a government that is totally Laissez-Faire for example...but how do we get out of this ever growing government?

I mean I for one do not see either the Republicans or Democrats fixing America's problems at all. They can only fix short term goals at best!

All our government has been doing for the last seventy years is compromise with other countries and itself. We need uncompromising and drastic change.

I will not give up on this country, which is why I stay an avid Libertarian.

There needs to be a constant push...a constant reminder that liberty is NEVER inalienable!

It is not the governments job to supply you with happiness! You need to get it yourself!

We cannot settle for compromise. We cannot become comfortable.

Liberty is never unalienable; it must be redeemed regularly with the blood of patriots or it always vanishes. Of all the so-called natural human rights that have ever been invented, liberty is least likely to be cheap and is never free of cost. The third 'right'?—the 'pursuit of happiness'? It is indeed unalienable but it is not a right; it is simply a universal condition which tyrants cannot take away nor patriots restore. Cast me into a dungeon, burn me at the stake, crown me king of kings, I can 'pursue happiness' as long as my brain lives—but neither gods nor saints, wise men nor subtle drugs, can insure that I will catch it."

How did we get like this? By chatting over the back fence, or over the store counter, or a beer or a cup of coffee, or the internet about how bad it is and how sad we feel about it, as if our complaints were a ritual of our life and would rid us of (name your defect or flaw du jour here), instead of taking any real participatory action to deal with it. By using second hand blame for first hand apathy. By making politics into a bumper sticker art form. By accepting charlatan political snake oil as easy fixes for real problems rather than demanding shirt dirty effort, and then bemoaning the state of affairs we've made. Why do you ask?

Originally Posted by Guyker

How did we get like this? By chatting over the back fence, or over the store counter, or a beer or a cup of coffee, or the internet about how bad it is and how sad we feel about it, as if our complaints were a ritual of our life and would rid us of (name your defect or flaw du jour here), instead of taking any real participatory action to deal with it. By using second hand blame for first hand apathy. By making politics into a bumper sticker art form. By accepting charlatan political snake oil as easy fixes for real problems rather than demanding shirt dirty effort, and then bemoaning the state of affairs we've made. Why do you ask?

Hey Guyker, speak for yourself my friend. There are activist, web sites, and protests. I protest at the drop of the hat. I take my anger and turn it into energy. In a couple of years I may run for an office, maybe Alderman. I fight the good fight for given up causes, I love it and am very used to be the underdog. What would be nice is to see some others do the same thing and stand for what this country used to be about. Get of the false left right paradigm!!

Originally Posted by michaelr

Hey Guyker, speak for yourself my friend. There are activist, web sites, and protests. I protest at the drop of the hat. I take my anger and turn it into energy. In a couple of years I may run for an office, maybe Alderman. I fight the good fight for given up causes, I love it and am very used to be the underdog. What would be nice is to see some others do the same thing and stand for what this country used to be about. Get of the false left right paradigm!!

Question was asked; I answered. If we don't like the state of affairs in this country, it's on us to fix it. I gather you agree. Way too many of us gripe in inaction. Wouldn't it be better to work to reform the system than to become mired in nothing more than pointing out its all-too-obvious faults?

I've protested, I've raised money, I held office, I've studied and suggested solutions, I've attended endless, countless meetings, volunteered for candidates, collected signatures, donate blood, volunteer for literacy tutoring, worked inside a political party, and pounded the sidewalks for 40+ years. I didn't mention any left/right element to this at all; apathy is nonpartisan, inaction is as well. I guess that's really what kinda ticks me off about the approach Hutch seems to have, altho I don't know the person, but it seems that the message that post had was more "we're pretty bad off, this is such a failure of everybody else" rather than "we're pretty bad off, let's all get off our duff and fix it by..." and frankly, I believe that is exactly why the "problem" is the problem. Take responsibility. Roll your sleeves up. Be an American of whatever stripe you want. Just stop thinking you've done something by "finding worms in dirt".

Well Guyker you are kind of being a smart ass about your answer.

Clearly I asked, ask you asked why I asked, because I WANT people to start doing something about it.

Do I agree with your idea of complaints being a bit of a ritual, yes and thats a big part of why we became like this...we are too lazy to take real action...we are too comfortable.

The government has been labeled over the past fifty or so years as something that is SUPPOSED to solve problems like education, racism, and all of that...when in actuality...a lot of the solution to those problems comes for the society itself.

I use Katrina as a metaphor...now I was not there and I do not know all the details...but I use it as a metaphor because it is very suiting...not because I am an expert.

People waited and waited for water to come. YET! How many cameras were on the dome were the survivors were? Were the reporters without supplies? Were the people watching for the x amount of days without the ability to help at all?

What did we do besides WAIT on the government to solve our problems. The government really cannot because it is not supposed to in the ideal of a Democratic Republic.

Well Guyker you are kind of being a smart ass in your answers.

Clearly I asked the question, to which you asked why I had asked it, because I agree with what you are saying in I want people to get out and do something about it. Not just complain.

But other than that I think you are right...we complain to much and rely on other people to solve our problems. And it causes the governmen to become more and more large and useless.

It is not supposed to solve the problems we want it to solve so badly...in the sense of an ideal Democratic Republic.

Take Katrina for example. How long were the Newscasters having their camera pointed at the dome with the trapped survivors. All the while telling us how poorly the government was doing in providing aide.

Did the Newscasters do anything? They were there!
Did the viewers grwoing angry at the government do anything?
Did the survivors say...hey lets not count on the clumsy government of ours and try to do something ourselves.

I am not saying it would have saved the freaking day but its better than waiting for the government to fix your problems.

So ask yourself what the purpose of a government really should be in a democracy like ours...and then ask why the governemnt is the way it is...and should it be. Then if you dont like what you realize...go out and start caring about your country.

A true patriot will always question his government...and if you have any ability to help change what you think is wrong...it is your duty to do something!

I didn't mean to come across as smart-assed in my response to your posts. I have reread them, and for the most part I think I missed the sense you expressed of personal responsibility (especially in the 2nd one), and for that I apologize if it offended you. I completely endorse the notion that we have to push the agenda we want as a civic responsibility, and I applaud you and Michaelr for doing so. Godd luck Mike in prusuing office-- I think that's really great.

I think we probably start to disagree on the role and nature of gov't and I'd like to get into that sometime, but right now my computer is goofing off and keeps bumping me off the forum if I get at all long-winded. So I'll end this with appreciation for bearing with me and taking me to task. Hope to discuss this further.

i'm going to try a short post--I have my appt to donate blood at 2:30.

Katrina: there is footage of camera crews delivering water and supplies, yes. And the volunteer response was so overwhelming that I recall officials telling people not to come because they were burdening the resources available.

Part of my thinking that much of the blame of Katrina lies in the hands of gov't stems from a number of specific things: the fact that FEMA exists to deal with disasters means the gov't has accepted disaster prep and response as a responsibility--it's not like that function is being assigned to the gov't out of thin air; the answers officials have given in subsequent questioning is absurd, or blaming others failures. One official when asked why the trailers purchased for temp housing for Katrina victims were not used, answered they were not certified for use in a flood plain; so why were they commissioned to begin with? Another said that one area never got federal help because they never asked for it. There weren't functioning communications in place, and that official well knows it. The whole region was wiped out, and he's saying "call me if you need something"?