Thread: the defining issue of the campaign: foreign policy

So, you know, "lots" of issues, as usual, right? The economy, immigration, yadda yadda -

But now, the election, has come down to McCain and "someone" - and that "someone's" policies, whoever that person is, will probably be "pretty similar", right?

So, it seems to me, that when I look around, and consider how McCain would approach some of these issues, the only area where I really see any "big" bone of contention, between McCain and "whoever that other person is", is around "foreign policy", and everything that spins out from that - primarily, the situation around the Iraq war.

So, please, in this thread, let's consider this is an "abstract, theoretical, political" sense, and not start debating numbers about Iraq, 'kay?

But, it seems to me, that McCain is gonna be the "stay the course" guy, and "that other person" is gonna be the "bring 'em home" guy (or girl), and that's gonna be pretty much "the" central area of contention, in this campaign.

So, then, backing up a level again, up into the consideration of generalized "foreign policy", the question really becomes, what should be the position of the United States, vis-a-vis the rest of the world? You know, do we want to be out there policing things and "exporting democracy" and stuff like that, or would it better to be minding our own business and just be a "nation among nations", as distinct from trying to perpetuate the "super-power" thing.

So, hmm.... what do you think, about that?

Who said it is McCain and someone? Having Arnie, Lieberman, and Guilani on your side isn't very convincing to real conservatives. It just goes to show how liberal McCain is and how the base isn't going to support him later.

Foreign Policy will only be a major issue if the economy picks up otherwise its all about the economy. We know that if McCain is the republican candidate that immigration isn't going to be an issue, as he and the dems are of like mind; amnesty monkeys. Where is McCain going to get the money to keep going? Even a good showing at Super Tuesday can't cement McCain for the nomination, there is a longer road ahead than many want to admit.

I agree that the economy is going to take center stage for this election. With so many homes forclosed on, so many Americans in debt and losing jobs, the economy is affecting your average joe a lot more than the war in Iraq.

That is assuming of course that the canidates are smart enough to keep policy and economy a seperate issue and we're dumb enough to buy it, and judging from past experience I'd say that's a safe assumption.

With regard to foreign policy, I'm of the mind that we need to take a noninterventionalist approach in the sense that military pressure should be a second-to-last resort to diplomacy. We should begin to engage in talks with every nation from Iran to Burma, and allow our enemies to be enemies through failed negotiation as opposed to non negotiation. I find it's better to know what's going on in the other camp regardless of whether or not you like what you see. I also don't like the idea that nations who are shut out from our diplomatic process are vieled to the public and only available to our intel community. That creates a situation where we rely on our government to tell us what's going on, rather than seeing the labor and the fruits or lack there of, of our labor.

I believe we should end foreign aid to all nations, the only exeption to that rule shouuld be emergency aid as in the case of the Tsunami.

We need to recognise what foreing aid is all about, it's not actually about helping people, it's about helping corporations. When we "give" x number of dollars to Israel, we're actually giving that money to US arms manufacturers, and when we give money on the African continent we're actually giving money to US pharmecutical companies which are already robbing US citizens at CVS. What we're doing at this point is paying taxes back to our employers (unless you work for yourself or a small business, in that case you just get both ends of the hose) after the government gets it's cut.

Foreign Policy creates the conditions of the economy, and until we understand where our tax dollars are going the US government will intentionally keep FP a mess.

Originally Posted by Sparta

We should begin to engage in talks with every nation from Iran to Burma, and allow our enemies to be enemies through failed negotiation as opposed to non negotiation. I find it's better to know what's going on in the other camp regardless of whether or not you like what you see. I also don't like the idea that nations who are shut out from our diplomatic process are vieled to the public and only available to our intel community. That creates a situation where we rely on our government to tell us what's going on, rather than seeing the labor and the fruits or lack there of, of our labor.

Brilliant! Fully aligned!

Would you mind if I cut-and-pasted this into another forum? I'll give you credit for it.... or point people back here, if you wish.

Originally Posted by nonsqtr

Brilliant! Fully aligned!

Would you mind if I cut-and-pasted this into another forum? I'll give you credit for it.... or point people back here, if you wish.

So long as you spell check it for me.

Iraq is winding down. It ceases to be the premier issue in that it would become harder and harder for a new President to muck it up. Troops will start comming home shortly.

Immigration is the premier issue. It ruins the economy.

Originally Posted by Sparta

So long as you spell check it for me.

Done. Thanks! You're a star!

Yeah - your words were more clear and concise than any "I" could have put together, so....

This is great, this internet thing. You know, there's like "liberal boards" and "conservative boards" and "all kinds of boards", right? So once in a while, I kinda "stir up the pot" a little, and move information between the boards.

But yeah, this is getting interesting now. I'll share something with you, real quick-like. I'm a software guy by long career, and part of what I've done, in my many travels, is scrape some government databases, and make them presentable and accessible on the internet. Basically, the same kinda thing that people like the Sunlight Foundation and Center for Public Integrity do.

Well, Senators, and elected representatives, they're not always ahead of the curve, on some of this stuff. They, sometimes have just as hard a time getting the information they need, as you and I do. So, we help them. How do we do that?

Well, I'll give you a specific example - the "economic stimulus". Did you know, that since Bushie took office, in the farming sector of this economy, french fries have been re-classified as "Fresh Vegetables"? So, if you look at the numbers there (GAO and so on), the farming sector is doing just fine, right? The only problem is, it's not, really - so, okay - why not?

So, a guy like me, and some of the folks I work with, we can take a government database, convert it into a spreadsheet, take out the french fries from the equation, and recalculate all the economic numbers for the United States of America, and we can do that in three minutes.

So, in the space of thirty minutes, we can run ten, entire, what-if scenarios like that - and then, in the next two minutes, we can send the entire package to all 100 Senators via e-mail.

So now, the Senators have context, right? Additional context, that they didn't have before, and that it would have taken their staffs lots of time, to a) find the data, b) convert it into a useful form, c) crunch it like we did, and d) interpret the results.

So, "we", do all that for 'em, and give it to 'em as a "fait accomplit", and it takes all of 32 minutes.

See? So I just kinda wanted to share that, in the way of "context", for what a wonderful thing, this internet is becoming.

I swear, this is probably one of the single most important inventions in all of human history, it's right up there with the printing press (Gutenberg Bible and all - you know, the whole idea of "rapid" exchange of information, coupled with the idea of taking the "power" of information, out of the hands of the elite, and placing it into the hands of the common man).

So, thanks once again, for your excellent words!

You just told me what you said on another thread, only this time I understand what youre talking about.

Do you mean to say, that you have access to official fudged numbers, and you recalculate them with the correct information, and then you take that information and provide it to reps?

That is outstanding work man, very good.

I like the U.S. being the dominant world power. I like the U.S. maintaining order around the world, insuring freedom of the seas, acting as a deterrent to dictators around the world, killing terrorists whenever possible.

Originally Posted by Dayton3

I like the U.S. being the dominant world power. I like the U.S. maintaining order around the world, insuring freedom of the seas, acting as a deterrent to dictators around the world, killing terrorists whenever possible.

That's all fine and well and good, so long as you remember that the first step in global domination is regional domination, which of course starts in your home.