Thread: What is a Liberal?

When people today espouse that they are liberals I almost become offended, but I forgive them of their ignorance. The word "liberalism" has become polluted. I think the pollution began with FDR and the onset of welfare liberalism. Welfare liberalism is a form of "soft socialism". It is a far cry from classical liberism which espouses personal sovereignty, limited government, negative rights, and free markets.

I admire figures like Paine, Bastiat, Hayek, Friedman, Hume, and many others. I also value empiricism.

Today's liberalism espouses positive rights and increased government intervention. Positive rights go against the grain of personal sovereignty since it is a form of collectivism.

I find concrete statements of fact rather than philosophy work better hence my signature. Paine and Hume for example were cited by the Jacobins during the reign of terror. Social Darwinist doctrines do not go in one ear and out the other.

Conservatives say:

A liberal mind is a mind that is able to imagine itself believing anything.
Max Eastman

A liberal is a man who will give away everything he doesn't own.
Frank Dane

Liberals say:

A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon. Gregory Nunn


A liberal is a man or a woman or a child who looks forward to a better day, a more tranquil night, and a bright, infinite future.
Leonard Bernstein

Webster says:

Main Entry:1lib·er·al Pronunciation: \ˈli-b(ə-)rəl\ Function:adjective Etymology:Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Latin liberalis suitable for a freeman, generous, from liber free; perhaps akin to Old English lēodan to grow, Greek eleutheros freeDate:14th century 1 a: of, relating to, or based on the liberal arts <liberal education> barchaic : of or befitting a man of free birth

2 a: marked by generosity : openhanded <a liberal giver> b: given or provided in a generous and openhanded way <a liberal meal> c: ample full

3obsolete : lacking moral restraint : licentious

4: not literal or strict : loose <a liberal translation>
5: cPanel®; especially : not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or traditional forms

6 a: of, favoring, or based upon the principles of liberalism bcapitalized : of or constituting a political party advocating or associated with the principles of political liberalism; especially : of or constituting a political party in the United Kingdom associated with ideals of individual especially economic freedom, greater individual participation in government, and constitutional, political, and administrative reforms designed to secure these objectives
— lib·er·al·ly \-b(ə-)rə-lē\ adverb
— lib·er·al·ness noun

What else is there to say?

Originally Posted by william the wierd

I find concrete statements of fact rather than philosophy work better hence my signature. Paine and Hume for example were cited by the Jacobins during the reign of terror. Social Darwinist doctrines do not go in one ear and out the other.

I am confused by your comment. Can you expand on each of your three sentences?

Originally Posted by Solon

What else is there to say?

To ask you to refrain from further conversation and pollution. Not once did I bring up liberal vs conservatism, but you felt inclined.

I want to discuss classical liberalism (which side with conversation on fiscal matters, but that is all{ vs modern day liberalism.

Originally Posted by ~V~

When people today espouse that they are liberals I almost become offended, but I forgive them of their ignorance. The word "liberalism" has become polluted. I think the pollution began with FDR and the onset of welfare liberalism. Welfare liberalism is a form of "soft socialism". It is a far cry from classical liberism which espouses personal sovereignty, limited government, negative rights, and free markets.

I admire figures like Paine, Bastiat, Hayek, Friedman, Hume, and many others. I also value empiricism.

Today's liberalism espouses positive rights and increased government intervention. Positive rights go against the grain of personal sovereignty since it is a form of collectivism.

You know, the only reason I call myself a liberal is because it's the title I was branded with.

In reality, I would say I'm a centrist with a bit of left and libertarian leanings.

Originally Posted by ~V~

When people today espouse that they are liberals I almost become offended, but I forgive them of their ignorance. The word "liberalism" has become polluted. I think the pollution began with FDR and the onset of welfare liberalism. Welfare liberalism is a form of "soft socialism". It is a far cry from classical liberism which espouses personal sovereignty, limited government, negative rights, and free markets.

I admire figures like Paine, Bastiat, Hayek, Friedman, Hume, and many others. I also value empiricism.

Today's liberalism espouses positive rights and increased government intervention. Positive rights go against the grain of personal sovereignty since it is a form of collectivism.

It seems to me that many on the left like to say that people such as Thomas Paine were liberals. I am not exactly sure where that notion comes from. the idea of natural rights of man is realy an idea that seems to align with the conservative philosophy more than the liberal one. Free enterprise and the persuit of happiness and God given rights are cornerstones of the right. The left seems to more and more be entrenched in the communist ideals. I certainly agree with your assesment of the left today. I have been listening to Air America often lately and I hear constantly people will talk about "workers rights" constant talk about redistribution of wealth. It is out and out communism that is valued there.

Originally Posted by ~V~

To ask you to refrain from further conversation and pollution. Not once did I bring up liberal vs conservatism, but you felt inclined.

I want to discuss classical liberalism, which side with conversation on fiscal matters, but that is all.

I was not bringing up liberalism vs. conservatism. I was merely pointing out that there are many definitions of a liberal, depending on what one's viewpoint on life is. I shared some quotes by conservatives, to show their viewpoint, some by liberals, to show how they see themselves, and then the technical definition by Webster.

The purpose of my post was not to start an ideological war. It is only a commentary on the many and varied ways society answers your question.

If there was any mistake on my part, it was the assumption that we were discussing modern liberalism and not classical liberalism, and for that I do apologize.

Thanks for clarifying Solon.

Did they use the word "liberal" in Paines day? I know they used it for Liberal use of something but was it even a political term then? I think not. I believe it is a political word started in the 20th century.