Explorer scouts training in anti-terror tactics

**nonsqtr** · 28th November 2009 01:46 PM

NY Times Article On Boy Scouts Training Under DHS To Shoot Disgruntled Veterans!!

Todd Krainin for The New York Times

Jennifer Steinhauer

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/14/us...rers.html?_r=1

IMPERIAL, Calif. â€” Ten minutes into arrant mayhem in this town near the Mexican border, and the gunman, a disgruntled Iraq war veteran, has already taken out two people, one slumped in his desk, the other covered in blood on the floor.

The responding officers â€” eight teenage boys and girls, the youngest 14 â€” face tripwire, a thin cloud of poisonous gas and loud shots â€” BAM! BAM! â€” fired from behind a flimsy wall. They move quickly, pellet guns drawn and masks affixed.

â€œUnited States Border Patrol! Put your hands up!â€ screams one in a voice cracking with adolescent determination as the suspect is subdued.

It is all quite a step up from the square knot.

The Explorers program, a coeducational affiliate of the Boy Scouts of America that began 60 years ago, is training thousands of young people in skills used to confront terrorism, illegal immigration and escalating border violence â€” an intense ratcheting up of one of the groupâ€™s longtime missions to prepare youths for more traditional jobs as police officers and firefighters.

â€œThis is about being a true-blooded American guy and girl,â€ said A. J. Lowenthal, a sheriffâ€™s deputy here in Imperial County, whose life clock, he says, is set around the Explorers events he helps run. â€œIt fits right in with the honor and bravery of the Boy Scouts.â€

The training, which leaders say is not intended to be applied outside the simulated Explorer setting, can involve chasing down illegal border crossers as well as more dangerous situations that include facing down terrorists and taking out â€œactive shooters,â€ like those who bring gunfire and death to college campuses. In a simulation here of a raid on a marijuana field, several Explorers were instructed on how to quiet an obstreperous lookout.

â€œPut him on his face and put a knee in his back,â€ a Border Patrol agent explained. â€œI guarantee that heâ€™ll shut up.â€

One participant, Felix Arce, 16, said he liked â€œthe discipline of the program,â€ which was something he said his life was lacking. â€œI want to be a lawyer, and this teaches you about how crimes are committed,â€ he said.

Cathy Noriego, also 16, said she was attracted by the guns. The group uses compressed-air guns â€” known as airsoft guns, which fire tiny plastic pellets â€” in the training exercises, and sometimes they shoot real guns on a closed range.

â€œI like shooting them,â€ Cathy said. â€œI like the sound they make. It gets me excited.â€

...

Authenticity seems to be the goal. Imperial County, in Southern California, is the poorest in the state, and the local economy revolves largely around the criminal justice system. In addition to the sheriff and local police departments, there are two state prisons and a large Border Patrol and immigration enforcement presence.

Hm... thoughts?

**michaelr** · 28th November 2009 01:52 PM

[quote name='nonsqtr' date='28 November 2009 - 12:46 PM' timestamp='1259441182' post='68856']

NY Times Article On Boy Scouts Training Under DHS To Shoot Disgruntled Veterans!!

Todd Krainin for The New York Times

Jennifer Steinhauer

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/14/us...rers.html?_r=1

Hm... thoughts?

[/quote]

Hitler youth.

**AibyoukaKyu** · 28th November 2009 01:55 PM

[quote name='nonsqtr' date='28 November 2009 - 03:46 PM' timestamp='1259441182' post='68856']

NY Times Article On Boy Scouts Training Under DHS To Shoot Disgruntled Veterans!!

Todd Krainin for The New York Times

Jennifer Steinhauer

http://www.nytimes.c...orers.html?_r=1

Hm... thoughts?

[/quote]

Ah, touchy subject there non

On the one hand, most people's immediate reactions will be "war-mongerers! violence is evil! guns r bad! these kids are too young! brainwashing and de-sensitizing!"

On the other hand, under the proper guidance.. its best to learn how to discipline yourself from a young age, learn how to respect and wield firearms rather than piss yourself at the sight of one, learn how to subdue a threat without having to kill a person, and essentially continue following what our founding fathers believed in and strongly advocated

**nonsqtr** · 28th November 2009 02:02 PM

[quote name='AibyoukaKyu' date='28 November 2009 - 03:55 PM' timestamp='1259441751' post='68859']

On the one hand, most people's immediate reactions will be "war-mongerers! violence is evil! guns r bad! these kids are too young! brainwashing and de-sensitizing!"

On the other hand, under the proper guidance.. its best to learn how to discipline yourself from a young age, learn how to respect and wield firearms rather than piss yourself at the sight of one, learn how to subdue a threat without having to kill a person, and essentially continue following what our founding fathers believed in and strongly advocated

[/quote]

Yes. You've nailed it, AibyoukaKyu! That's kinda what I was thinking too. "This could be a good thing, because an armed and vigilant citizenry is the best defense. BUT, look at the tidbit about marijuana fields and lookouts, that sounds more like indoctrination, and telling these kids what is evil".

So, like, you gotta train on something, right? Terrorists... m... sure. They "by definition" blow up innocent people, they're scum. Marijuana fields? Hm... well, it's a big leap to assume that any lookout in such a field will be heavily armed and dangerous.

Not sure which way to go on this one, I'll value your input!

**Inkslinger** · 28th November 2009 02:24 PM

[quote name='michaelr' date='28 November 2009 - 03:52 PM' timestamp='1259441573' post='68858']

Hitler youth.

[/quote]

Christian Rightwing Youth Squad.

No dif than this:

**Davocrat** · 28th November 2009 03:18 PM

[quote name='nonsqtr' date='28 November 2009 - 03:46 PM' timestamp='1259441182' post='68856']

NY Times Article On Boy Scouts Training Under DHS To Shoot Disgruntled Veterans!!

Todd Krainin for The New York Times

Jennifer Steinhauer

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/14/us...rers.html?_r=1

Hm... thoughts?

[/quote]

I was "Exploring Executive"in charge of the Exploring program in a NE Ohio council for about 4 years in the 80s. This just sounds like the same fire, police, EMT, NATIONAL GUARD programs they had back then. The idea was to let the kids try out careers. They also used to offer data processing, medical careers, truck driving, but I think they pared back off those careers. It was my job to recruit police departments and fire departments and banks and hospitals to sponsor "Posts." In all honesty, I'd say it was a pretty good program, considering it cost $5 to join. And if you were into being a cop, you got to ride along in the cruisers.

I can assure you, Nonsqtr and Michaelr, that MOST of the volunteer leadership in Boy Scouts of America share many of your views on guns and the almighty "Founders."

That's one reason why I wanted to get out the organization as fast as I could, that and the low pay.

But there are some trees over there, see 'em? Go bark up those.

Do you guys sit around with an alarm programmed on some automated Google search for "evidence" of government takeover?

Well, at least you aren't busting on the "mainstream media" this time.

Ask me anything you want to know about either The Boy Scouts of America OR Girl Scouts USA (totally separate). I'm sure you hate the Girl Scouts for being too liberal...as they are.

**Davocrat** · 28th November 2009 03:29 PM

And, as usual, Nonsqtr opens with an inflammatory editorialization of the actual report in the NYTimes. THEY get it right. It's "Explorers," not "Explorer Scouts." And they Times also presents an objective report that probably resulted from some BSA public relations out of their headquarters in Irving, TX.

Understand, the Boy Scouts are run by a volunteer board that has included many high profile names, including H. Ross Perot. And at the local level, their is some autonomy of the sponsoring organization, but the national organization has some obvious oversight for insurance purposes and to make sure THEY KEEP OUT GAYS.<--another reason why I don't support them anymore.

BUT, this is hardly 1) anything new (kids did this as far back as 1977 or longer) or 2) Hitler Youth. Granted I'm not into it, but it's hardly a threat and if anything THEY'RE NOT FANS OF OBAMA. Kinda like our resident libertopians.

**nomadrider** · 28th November 2009 06:09 PM

[quote name='michaelr' date='28 November 2009 - 03:52 PM' timestamp='1259441573' post='68858']

Hitler youth.

[/quote]

Let's explore your little statement just a bit. Hitler youth were indoctrinated in anti-semitism, educated in Nazi principals with service to der Furher, and prepared physically to fight for the Third Reich. Your totally wrong to ascribe these charactistics to the Explorer Scouts in Imperial Beach, Ca. In fact, you should apologize on this forum for making a slanderous statement like that.

These kids learn skills that may just save their lives in that border town south of San Diego. But I suppose you'd rather have them doing drugs, joining gangs, and destroying their lives.

**Davocrat** · 28th November 2009 06:13 PM

[quote name='nomadrider' date='28 November 2009 - 08:09 PM' timestamp='1259456947' post='68969']

Let's explore your little statement just a bit. Hitler youth were indoctrinated in anti-semitism, educated in Nazi principals with service to der Furher, and prepared physically to fight for the Third Reich. Your totally wrong to ascribe these charactistics to the Explorer Scouts in Imperial Beach, Ca. In fact, you should apologize on this forum for making a slanderous statement like that.

These kids learn skills that may just save their lives in that border town south of San Diego. But I suppose you'd rather have them doing drugs, joining gangs, and destroying their lives.

[/quote]

We agree! Pretty much...

**Gypsy** · 28th November 2009 06:17 PM

[quote name='nomadrider' date='28 November 2009 - 08:09 PM' timestamp='1259456947' post='68969']

Let's explore your little statement just a bit. Hitler youth were indoctrinated in anti-semitism, educated in Nazi principals with service to der Furher, and prepared physically to fight for the Third Reich. Your totally wrong to ascribe these charactistics to the Explorer Scouts in Imperial Beach, Ca. In fact, you should apologize on this forum for making a slanderous statement like that.

These kids learn skills that may just save their lives in that border town south of San Diego. But I suppose you'd rather have them doing drugs, joining gangs, and destroying their lives.

[/quote]

When I first read the link in the OP I had mixed reactions. On one hand seeing the picture of the kids armed was disturbing. The simulation that they were practicing of killing a disgruntled Iraqi war vet was extremely disturbing to me. However, if these children are using this experience to go on to careers in the military or law enforcement then it can be a very useful program. I just hope they don't use this training to participate in gangs.