How many people can fit in a volkswagon?

**lakeman** · 1st November 2009 08:54 PM

The United states is rapidly following the lead of the UK. (Since when did we stop being the leaders?) Nevertheless that is the path our politicians are taking us down.

So they UK has nationalized health care and so our leaders want it too. Never mind that it will cost more and deliver less they tell us they want it precisely so that we can get more and pay less.

Is that what we want? Here is a completely unrelated story until one reads and understands the significance of just a few words:

It turns out that a very simple ambulance ride in the UK became a bit more complicated one day when the driver forgot that he had a patient in the back of his ambulance and he locked it up for the night.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...orgot-him.html

That in itself does not tell us much. Idiots make mistakes. It happens everywhere. But then in most accounts of this story a few choice words jump out if you are reading astutely. They are "after he dropped of the other three". As an American I had to stop and ask myself just what that meant. Why would an ambulance driver be dropping off some other people first and how could that possibly make it easier to forget about this guy? I looked around and found the article linked above and had my answer. It turns out that in this ambulance they transport multiple people to the hospital at the same time. It's the ultimate green victory - carpooling for ambulances. Its a great way to save money for the state who pays the bills! Its a nice way to forget about the fourth guy too. It doesn't matter who the driver was and it doesn't matter who owns that ambulance. What matters is that the system as a whole encouraged the situation.

Is this what we want? do you want a choice of a private room or to share a hospital room with at most one other person? Do you want to share your ambulance ride or like me do you just expect that you will be the only person in the ambulance?

**Gypsy** · 1st November 2009 09:02 PM

I think what amazes me is that the Obama haters seem to think he had destroyed the economy and the country in nine months. Did the past eight fucking years not happen or was it all a nightmare?

**Mr. Knight** · 1st November 2009 09:38 PM

[media]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=4B2WYan2T-E[/media]

[quote name='Gypsy' date='01 November 2009 - 11:02 PM' timestamp='1257134539' post='50182']

I think what amazes me is that the Obama haters seem to think he had destroyed the economy and the country in nine months. Did the past eight fucking years not happen or was it all a nightmare?

[/quote]

**freckles** · 1st November 2009 09:52 PM

[quote name='Gypsy' date='01 November 2009 - 11:02 PM' timestamp='1257134539' post='50182']

I think what amazes me is that the Obama haters seem to think he had destroyed the economy and the country in nine months. Did the past eight fucking years not happen or was it all a nightmare?

[/quote]

Are you replying to the right thread cause your post has nothing to do with the topic

**Forplay** · 1st November 2009 09:55 PM

[quote name='Gypsy' date='01 November 2009 - 09:02 PM' timestamp='1257134539' post='50182']

I think what amazes me is that the Obama haters seem to think he had destroyed the economy and the country in nine months. Did the past eight fucking years not happen or was it all a nightmare?

[/quote]

Yes Obama is a nightmare!!!!

**Gypsy** · 1st November 2009 09:56 PM

[quote name='Ananeele' date='01 November 2009 - 11:52 PM' timestamp='1257137578' post='50221']

Are you replying to the right thread cause your post has nothing to do with the topic

[/quote]

It is a comment to the intent of the thread.

**Mr. Knight** · 1st November 2009 09:58 PM

[quote name='Forplay' date='01 November 2009 - 11:55 PM' timestamp='1257137730' post='50222']

Yes Obama is a nightmare!!!!

[/quote]

Why?

**caffeine** · 2nd November 2009 06:23 AM

[quote name='lakeman' date='02 November 2009 - 04:54 AM' timestamp='1257134058' post='50177']

The United states is rapidly following the lead of the UK. (Since when did we stop being the leaders?) Nevertheless that is the path our politicians are taking us down.

So they UK has nationalized health care and so our leaders want it too. Never mind that it will cost more and deliver less they tell us they want it precisely so that we can get more and pay less. [/quote]

Two points:

1. When did your leaders ever suggest a system anything like the rather unusual British system of health care? Most proposals I've heard discussed sound much more like a continental compulsory-insurance based scheme.

2. On what basis would you expect it to cost more than the current American system, when the current American system costs more in government spending per capita than the British system, and vastly more per capita when private spending is included in that count?

That in itself does not tell us much. Idiots make mistakes. It happens everywhere. But then in most accounts of this story a few choice words jump out if you are reading astutely. They are "after he dropped of the other three". As an American I had to stop and ask myself just what that meant. Why would an ambulance driver be dropping off some other people first and how could that possibly make it easier to forget about this guy? I looked around and found the article linked above and had my answer. It turns out that in this ambulance they transport multiple people to the hospital at the same time. It's the ultimate green victory - carpooling for ambulances. Its a great way to save money for the state who pays the bills! Its a nice way to forget about the fourth guy too. It doesn't matter who the driver was and it doesn't matter who owns that ambulance. What matters is that the system as a whole encouraged the situation.

Is this what we want? do you want a choice of a private room or to share a hospital room with at most one other person? Do you want to share your ambulance ride or like me do you just expect that you will be the only person in the ambulance?

I would rather share the room and ambulance, knowing this means that I don't have to pay at the point of need; and that if I was wealthy and could afford better health care I could pay for my own room and ambulance in a private hospital.

**Blueneck** · 2nd November 2009 06:41 AM

[quote name='lakeman' date='01 November 2009 - 10:54 PM' timestamp='1257134058' post='50177']

The United states is rapidly following the lead of the UK. (Since when did we stop being the leaders?) Nevertheless that is the path our politicians are taking us down.

So they UK has nationalized health care and so our leaders want it too. Never mind that it will cost more and deliver less they tell us they want it precisely so that we can get more and pay less.

Is that what we want? Here is a completely unrelated story until one reads and understands the significance of just a few words:

It turns out that a very simple ambulance ride in the UK became a bit more complicated one day when the driver forgot that he had a patient in the back of his ambulance and he locked it up for the night.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...orgot-him.html

That in itself does not tell us much. Idiots make mistakes. It happens everywhere. But then in most accounts of this story a few choice words jump out if you are reading astutely. They are "after he dropped of the other three". As an American I had to stop and ask myself just what that meant. Why would an ambulance driver be dropping off some other people first and how could that possibly make it easier to forget about this guy? I looked around and found the article linked above and had my answer. It turns out that in this ambulance they transport multiple people to the hospital at the same time. It's the ultimate green victory - carpooling for ambulances. Its a great way to save money for the state who pays the bills! Its a nice way to forget about the fourth guy too. It doesn't matter who the driver was and it doesn't matter who owns that ambulance. What matters is that the system as a whole encouraged the situation.

Is this what we want? do you want a choice of a private room or to share a hospital room with at most one other person? Do you want to share your ambulance ride or like me do you just expect that you will be the only person in the ambulance?

[/quote]

Bullshit, Lakeman.

First of all, the article says nothing about "going green". And it also states the system had nothing to do with this mishap. It was just one employee who screwed up.

Next.

He was collected from the hospital by a driver working for the patient transport service, a van-style ambulance used to take non-emergency patients to and from appointments. It is understood that three other patients were on board.

The was being transported to and from a nursing home, a service American seniors don't usually get, so here, he probably would have died in the back of a bus, or went wandering the neighborhood for hours before anyone noticed him missing. Which brings me to my next point, they noticed him missing, which to me says a lot about the nursing home he was in.

Also, we just had a plane full of people go missing for an hour while it was flying in the air. And not one, but two pilots had no explanation for this.

I think characterizing the entire NHS by this one incident is ridiculous. I can find hundreds of articles to post about how our private health care system has overlooked much worse abuse of patients, especially ones in nursing homes.

Here ya go:

A resident of a northern Minnesota nursing home was dropped several feet while being moved in a sling from her bed to a wheelchair and suffered broken bones that contributed to her death, state investigators have concluded.

In another report, the Health Department said a nursing assistant at a St. Louis Park nursing home employee sexually abused a resident who has dementia.

http://www.startribune.com/lifestyle...D3aPc:_Yyc:aUU

Why do you feel it necessary to use scare tactics when there are people who can't afford any kind of health care at all? Do you expect they will shake their heads and say, "Damn, I'm sure glad we don't have socialized medicine, I'd rather die at home because I can't afford treatment than risk having that happen to me". Whew, close one.

We are in no danger of getting a National Health Program. I wish we were, but that isn't the case. All that's going to happen is we might, if we are lucky, get a public option of some sort, and if people don't like it they will opt out. Period.

The fact is, private insurance doesn't want nursing home patients, the chronically ill, or old people in their pool. They routinely overcharge them and kick them off their plans when they become too expensive, and the government is stuck taking care of them anyway, after they have lost everything they've worked for their whole lives, that is. Some system you are defending.

**lakeman** · 2nd November 2009 06:49 AM

[quote name='Gypsy' date='01 November 2009 - 10:02 PM' timestamp='1257134539' post='50182']

I think what amazes me is that the Obama haters seem to think he had destroyed the economy and the country in nine months. Did the past eight fucking years not happen or was it all a nightmare?

[/quote]

As you wrote it your comment is off point.

You are right that the intent of the thread is to point out that gov run nationalized systems are going to ration care. But you did not address that in any meaningful way.