Thread: Irshad Manji: "Islam is the Problem"

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On Monday, Pakistan's religious affairs minister said that because Rushdie had blasphemed Islam with provocative literature, it was understandable that angry Muslims would commit suicide bombings over his knighthood.
Members of parliament, as well as the Pakistani Government, amplified the condemnation of Britain, feeding cries of offence to Muslim sensibilities from Europe to Asia.


As a Muslim, you better believe I'm offended - by these absurd reactions.

I'm offended that every year, there are more women killed in Pakistan for allegedly violating their family's honour than there are detainees at Guantanamo Bay.


Muslims have rightly denounced the mistreatment of Gitmo prisoners. But where's our outrage over the murder of many more Muslims at the hands of our own?


I'm offended that in April, mullahs at an extreme mosque in Pakistan issued a fatwa against hugging.


The country's female tourism minister had embraced - or, depending on the account you follow, accepted a congratulatory pat from - her skydiving instructor after she successfully jumped in a French fundraiser for the victims of the 2005 Pakistan earthquake. Clerics announced her act of touching another man to be "a great sin" and demanded she be fired.


I'm offended by their fatwa proclaiming that women should stay at home and remain covered at all times.


I'm offended that they've bullied music store owners and video vendors into closing up shop.


I'm offended that the Government tiptoes around their craziness because these clerics threaten suicide attacks if confronted.


I'm offended that on Sunday, at least 35 Muslims in Kabul were blown to bits by other Muslims and on Tuesday, 80 more in Baghdad by Islamic "insurgents", with no official statement from Pakistan to deplore these assaults on fellow believers.


I'm offended that amid the internecine carnage, a professed atheist named Salman Rushdie tops the to-do list.


Above all, I'm offended that so many other Muslims are not offended enough to demonstrate widely against God's self-appointed ambassadors. We complain to the world that Islam is being exploited by fundamentalists, yet when reckoning with the opportunity to resist their clamour en masse, we fall curiously silent.

At George Mason, I took a course on Political Islam with a Sunni professor. During this course I discovered that Islam has become a politically motivated religious institution, led by deeply motivated individuals who seek to create an Islamic world beholden to Islamic law. This professor noted that this is no different than the Christian movement during the height of Catholic Hegemony. I pointed out that we refer to these times as the Dark Ages for a reason, and was politely asked to leave the room.


The truth is, no civilization can afford to sit quietly as religious institutions exercise political authority. While citizens should all enjoy religious freedom, our governments should enjoy freedom FROM religion. Religious Muslims are being swept up in the political ambitions of their leaders and are being marched down a road of insane violence, depravity, and anathema (meaning, "A formal ecclesiastical ban, curse, or excommunication").


The rise of socio-political movements within Islam and their political manifestations can no longer be tolerated. Yet, it is impossible for a society to fight a war against a religion. So who needs to be intolerant? Muslims. Muslims must stand up against the political bastards perverting their religion while remorselessly steering young men and women to their deaths.

yeah. but it's Islam itself that has to recognize this and it's not going to happen.
prepare for terrorism in your town... coming soon.

Originally Posted by sectionOne

yeah. but it's Islam itself that has to recognize this and it's not going to happen.
prepare for terrorism in your town... coming soon.

The choice is between an Islamic Reformation or another World War. Its their choice at this point. But eventually it will become our choice and we'll have to choose to defend ourselves.

Originally Posted by Burning Giraffe

During this course I discovered that Islam has become a politically motivated religious institution..

Hmm- Islam isn't a singular institution, so in this regard its quite unlike the Catholic and other Christain churches and more alike the Jewish faith.
Consequently Islamic States have a great deal more freedom of interpretation of religious doctrine (than European kingdoms did of Catholic orthodoxy).

That Islam is used for political purposes should not surpize you at all. All religions are abused by fundamentlists. In addition, however, Islam had rules as to how to govern, so in many countries it is intertwined with the philosophy of government. But the coutnries do not defer to a singular interpretation or a centralized authority.

Originally Posted by Burning Giraffe

led by deeply motivated individuals who seek to create an Islamic world beholden to Islamic law..

Care to share your research?

Originally Posted by Burning Giraffe

This professor noted that this is no different than the Christian movement during the height of Catholic Hegemony. I pointed out that we refer to these times as the Dark Ages for a reason, and was politely asked to leave the room...

I am surprized you were asked to leave the room.
The Dark Ages comment was slightly inaccurate, as Catholic hegemony was actually established by the Romans. But in terms of perpetuating ignorance during the Dark Ages, I'm inclined to agree. Significantly the difference with Islam is that for scientific endeavour, there is no clamping down on knowledge. Islam could quite easily have gone down this route as Catholicism did, but for the very explicit and quite irrefutable command to seek knowledge.

Originally Posted by Burning Giraffe

The truth is, no civilization can afford to sit quietly as religious institutions exercise political authority. While citizens should all enjoy religious freedom, our governments should enjoy freedom FROM religion. Religious Muslims are being swept up in the political ambitions of their leaders and are being marched down a road of insane violence, depravity, and anathema (meaning, "A formal ecclesiastical ban, curse, or excommunication")..

I reckon the statements made by the Pakistani minister were probably intended to satiate the enraged Pakistani public, because Pakistan was intending to actually do jack-shit about it in the real world.... Ill-advised comments, but the religious fervor was bottom-up, not top-down.

Originally Posted by Burning Giraffe

Muslims must stand up against the political bastards perverting their religion while remorselessly steering young men and women to their deaths.

Absolutely.

Originally Posted by Latherty

Hmm- Islam isn't a singular institution, so in this regard its quite unlike the Catholic and other Christain churches and more alike the Jewish faith.
Consequently Islamic States have a great deal more freedom of interpretation of religious doctrine (than European kingdoms did of Catholic orthodoxy).

That Islam is used for political purposes should not surpize you at all. All religions are abused by fundamentlists. In addition, however, Islam had rules as to how to govern, so in many countries it is intertwined with the philosophy of government. But the coutnries do not defer to a singular interpretation or a centralized authority.

.

layhey, you really need to take your clothes off and put them on inside out or something because I want you for a moment to think not Western.
Islam is not comparative to Christianity.
in Islam religion and government are one. with one concept, one law, united. with singular authority.
grasp this concept then turn your clothes right side out again and go back to your favorite KFC.

Originally Posted by Burning Giraffe

At George Mason, I took a course on Political Islam with a Sunni professor. During this course I discovered that Islam has become a politically motivated religious institution, led by deeply motivated individuals who seek to create an Islamic world beholden to Islamic law. This professor noted that this is no different than the Christian movement during the height of Catholic Hegemony. I pointed out that we refer to these times as the Dark Ages for a reason, and was politely asked to leave the room.

The truth is, no civilization can afford to sit quietly as religious institutions exercise political authority. While citizens should all enjoy religious freedom, our governments should enjoy freedom FROM religion. Religious Muslims are being swept up in the political ambitions of their leaders and are being marched down a road of insane violence, depravity, and anathema (meaning, "A formal ecclesiastical ban, curse, or excommunication").

The rise of socio-political movements within Islam and their political manifestations can no longer be tolerated. Yet, it is impossible for a society to fight a war against a religion. So who needs to be intolerant? Muslims. Muslims must stand up against the political bastards perverting their religion while remorselessly steering young men and women to their deaths.

OUTSTANDING commentary! My favorite line:

"I pointed out that we refer to these times as the Dark Ages for a reason, and was politely asked to leave the room. "

I am definitely GREENING you for not only being intelligent and knowledgeable, but for standing up to an intellectual moron who thinks he can spoon-feed his students his nonsensical views and not permit dissent.

I would not have left.

Originally Posted by sectionOne

Islam is not comparative to Christianity.
in Islam religion and government are one. with one concept, one law, united. with singular authority.

I was pointing out the difference, actually... At issue was the comparison by BG between Islam and the Catholic hegemony during the Dark Ages....

there is no earthly singular authority, not like the Pope. Many Islamic countries have different interpretations of the Qu'ran and run differently to each other, some more fundamentalist than others... This is most clearly illustrated in trying to get a cold beer...

Originally Posted by Latherty

I was pointing out the difference, actually... At issue was the comparison by BG between Islam and the Catholic hegemony during the Dark Ages....

there is no earthly singular authority, not like the Pope. Many Islamic countries have different interpretations of the Qu'ran and run differently to each other, some more fundamentalist than others... This is most clearly illustrated in trying to get a cold beer...

*fingers in ears* lalallalallala. I'm not listening until you take your clothes off.
Islam doesn't have a country. and yes there is a pope-like-guy representative.

ok, don't compare Christianity to Islam even in pointing out differences... it only gives the enemy ammo. nowatimsayin?

Originally Posted by sectionOne

*fingers in ears* lalallalallala. I'm not listening until you take your clothes off.
Islam doesn't have a country. and yes there is a pope-like-guy representative.

ok, don't compare Christianity to Islam even in pointing out differences... it only gives the enemy ammo. nowatimsayin?

Wish I coul green you for that.