Thread: Constitutional Convention Anew

Hypothetically, say the constitution were being redrafted. How would you envision the American government to look and operate with a new constitution? What sort of institutions would be in place?

I'm curious to know.

It would be crafted by the politicians of today, almost none of whom understand the genius of the original document.

A re-write today would be forced to include more nonsense, such as the UN's Rights of Man, it would provide more power to the federal government, and it would be easier to change (that means easier to fuck up) in the future.

Under no circumstances should we attempt to have a Constitutional Convention.

Originally Posted by nonsqtr

I get it. You're scared of your fellow man.

A public that could elect Bill Clinton, and then re-elect him; a public in which a majority could vote for an idiot like Al Gore, and promote John Kerry, and then saddle us with a Kenyan socialist that hates what America is, on the one hand, and, a public that could put not one, but two Bushes in office, and put a leftie like John McCain to counter that same Kenyan, and you have to ask if any sane person would trust neighbors as stupid as that?

Do you trust those idiots when they get to the polls?

Would you stand next to Dick Cheney on a hunting trip?

You're the only one who has any intelligence. I got it. Your fellows are a bunch of ignorant screw-ups, right?

Don't recall having any fellows. The Mayor isn't a professional society. However, the Mayor's orange-wing amazon is smarter than the voters just described. In fact, the Mayor's koi are smarter than them.

Well, I say, have the Convention. Have it now. We need the practice. Let the chips fall where they may.

Won't be chips. Any such convention would open the door wider for the useless idiots to force even more socialism on this country, and one needs only look to the French Revolution to see what happens when socialists get the upper hand. Won't be chips flying, it'll be heads rolling.

Start now, and that way maybe we'll keep doing it every 20 years like we're supposed to.

And yes, maybe we'll do the wrong thing for a minute, but if we do, in 20 years we'll have a chance to correct it.

How many millions of people have socialists killed this last century? It's not something adults take chances with.

That way, maybe we'll start taking responsibility for our own political futures again.

Yeah, well, reality isn't that cute.

As it stands, the fed is going to do whatever it's going to do anyway, and I think it would be a very good idea to give the States and their representatives a say in what's going on.

They do.

The process is called "elections".

The last elections removed the most offensive party from power in the House. The people are still pissed off out here.

Originally Posted by nonsqtr

I would begin with a simple Amendment. A Convention is a bit much to bite off all at once, and the drive for it would have to come from the States anyway. (The Feds don't have any reason to change anything, do they?)

One or two hard-hitting Amendments might obviate the need for a Convention. At least in the immediate term.

So long as the Amendment does not limit freedom. Only one experiment was made to limit American freedom with the Constitution. It was a complete failure.

Let's guess, you want to control how people spend their money, right?

Should you not instead be demanding that government powers be reduced so people have less desire to influence Congress with cash?

First you have to identify what the real problems are, and what are just symptoms of those propblems. Then correct the problems.

Problem: A corrupt, elitist, lifetime judiciary.
Symptoms: Lunatic rulings completely bereft of Constituitonal foundation, such as Roe v Wade and Kelo v New London.
Solution: End the lifetime appoint rule by implementing judicial term limits.

Problem: A Congress wielding unlimited power.
Symptoms: Legislation for fucking everything, all the way from the preservation of mosquito breeding grounds in Alaska to the size of doorways in your local greasy spoon. Rape becoming an aspect of "interstate commerce".
Solution: An amendment that requires all bills to cite the relevant clause of Article I, Section 8 authorizing the Congressional action, noting that the phrase "General welfare" is not a clause and provides authority for nothing, and re-defining "interstate commerce" in a meaningful way so that Congress will know that rape isn't commerce, and that this clause does not grant unlimited power to the Congress.

Problem: A president believing he can bypass Congress with Executive Orders.
Symptoms: Bush withholding documents from 1988 and later from public review for a minimum of fifty years.
Solution: An Amendment that sunsets EO's within six months if Congress does not pass authorizing resolutions for the exact wording of the EO.

What have you got?

Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum

It would be crafted by the politicians of today, almost none of whom understand the genius of the original document.

A re-write today would be forced to include more nonsense, such as the UN's Rights of Man, it would provide more power to the federal government, and it would be easier to change (that means easier to fuck up) in the future.

Under no circumstances should we attempt to have a Constitutional Convention.

You're half right, Snookie.

We should not have a Constitutional convention. The reason we should not is because the right would fill it with corporatist claptrap, homphobia, and narrow Christian definitions.

As long as we have people, like the TEA Party who propose ideas like "non-land owners should not vote" then the right should be kept as far away from the levers of power as possible.

Originally Posted by nonsqtr

I get it. You're scared of your fellow man. You're the only one who has any intelligence. I got it. Your fellows are a bunch of ignorant screw-ups, right?

Hm.

Well, I say, have the Convention. Have it now. We need the practice. Let the chips fall where they may.

Start now, and that way maybe we'll keep doing it every 20 years like we're supposed to.

And yes, maybe we'll do the wrong thing for a minute, but if we do, in 20 years we'll have a chance to correct it.

That way, maybe we'll start taking responsibility for our own political futures again.

As it stands, the fed is going to do whatever it's going to do anyway, and I think it would be a very good idea to give the States and their representatives a say in what's going on.

As it stands, they have no say, and that was certainly not the intent of the Founders.

Fix the money. You're going to need at least an Amendment to do that, and maybe even a Convention. Start now, there isn't much time.

I agree wholeheartedly. We desperately need a constitutional convention. I have faith that, if we put our heads and hearts together in a virtuous effort to preserve both the liberties our forefathers fought and died for as well as the core principles of a democratic, but regulated social mechanism of law, we have enough intelligent people of integrity who can come to some kind of peaceable solution to the mess we find ourselves in presently.
Absent this sort of action, I can't see much but blood, suffering, and eventual tyranny in our near future.

Originally Posted by Cicero

You're half right, Snookie.

We should not have a Constitutional convention. The reason we should not is because the right would fill it with corporatist claptrap, homphobia, and narrow Christian definitions.

As long as we have people, like the TEA Party who propose ideas like "non-land owners should not vote" then the right should be kept as far away from the levers of power as possible.

Protip: Sometimes you should think about what you say before you say it, and decide not to.

Originally Posted by sparsely

Protip: Sometimes you should think about what you say before you say it, and decide not to.

He does speak of some concerns that I have personally.

There are elements within the government that would seek to desecularize the state, and possibly even loose rules for corporate and other business entities. I would not like to see that happen.