Thread: Three issues.

No I am not letting these issues go, and no I do not give a flying fuck if any of you call this "whining". These are real issues that need to be addressed as soon as possible, we have already lost quality members and are in danger of losing more because they remain unresolved.

1) Moderator Inconsitency.

The biggest issue, and most dire. It is abundantly clear that the moderators lack a sense of consistency when it comes to dispensing punishments - case in point is Defensor. It is quite apparent he has no interest in debating whatsoever, he is merely a troll. I am aware that he is temp banned, however he was only put on a temp ban after a HUGE and repeated string of complaints. Meanwhile, members such as myself, Bourne, Zarathustra have been placed on temp bans for things far minor than he has done, and a huge number of other members have been infracted for far less as well. Cite "freedom of speech" and "diversity of opinion" all you like, it does not change the fact that different standards are applied to different members.

2) Thread Misplacements.

The second issue on the list starts with a simple question - why do we even have the conspiracy theory section if conspiracy theories are allowed to escape it. We are all well aware some people are dumb enough to believe that Obama was not born in Hawaii, or that the International League of Zionist Homosexuals or whatever controls the government - however, we have this thing called the conspiracy theories forum. We know that mods can move threads, how about you start putting the threads in the right places?

3) Prohibition of Stating Points of Fact.

Calling someone a racist when they clearly are a racist is not offensive speech in the least, and that's all that needs to be said.

As I have said before, we have lost good members and are in danger of losing more because these issues are unresolved. Now, before one of the mods locks the thread because they can't take the heat, let me just say this - you can give us the same hallmark corporate reply every time, but until we actually see you taking action your words are worth absolutely jack shit.

Originally Posted by Ausinus

...Calling someone a racist when they clearly are a racist is not offensive speech in the least, and that's all that needs to be said.
.....

Is calling someone stupid who is stupid OK?

Is calling someone a pig when they are a pig OK?

Listen, what makes you and your pals so good that you are able to determine who is or is not stupid or a pig or a racist?

When did you get elected God?

Defensor brings a lot more to the board than some here. If it’s not him it’s someone else all of you don’t like. Lets see Tick, Notmyrealname, Conservative, and the list goes on. I am sure I am on your list too. The mods made it clear not to attack the poster but the post. I don't see him as racist at all. Go by the rules and stop bothering the mods.

Originally Posted by Ausinus

No I am not letting these issues go, and no I do not give a flying fuck if any of you call this "whining". These are real issues that need to be addressed as soon as possible, we have already lost quality members and are in danger of losing more because they remain unresolved.

I don't think you are whining about this and I agree there are some unresolved issues that need to be dealt with. As a moderator I'm not interested in losing more members but I am also aware that members operate under their own capacity and choice.

I am not aware of any member leaving because they were backed into a corner, were forced to leave, or convinced to leave aside from their own opinion of any given situation.

In fact, on almost every occasion someone leaves it is based on conditions they prefer to indicate, and conditions they want resolved immediately... or else. So in that instance, the mods are backed into a corner. Sometimes mods are backed into a corner and it kind of goes with the territory, so I'm not complaining about that, I'm merely pointing it out.

1) Moderator Inconsitency.

The biggest issue, and most dire. It is abundantly clear that the moderators lack a sense of consistency when it comes to dispensing punishments - case in point is Defensor. It is quite apparent he has no interest in debating whatsoever, he is merely a troll. I am aware that he is temp banned, however he was only put on a temp ban after a HUGE and repeated string of complaints. Meanwhile, members such as myself, Bourne, Zarathustra have been placed on temp bans for things far minor than he has done, and a huge number of other members have been infracted for far less as well. Cite "freedom of speech" and "diversity of opinion" all you like, it does not change the fact that different standards are applied to different members.

You're opinion of Defensor is your opinion. We as mods have an opinion of certain members as well, including him, but choose not to use that to levy punishment. That would be truly inconsistent since its not right to allow our opinions to dictate a member's status on the board. Which should sound very familiar in concerns to him vs. members. Doesn't it?

We can voice our opinions all day in the moderation room but when it comes right down to it, its all about what rules were broken and which rules were not broken. I personally challenged the opinions and offer my own but at the end of the day that is inconsequential in the face of stated and posted rules.

As for Defensor's TempBan, you are incorrect. It wasn't after a HUGE string of complaints that he was TB'd, it was after he broke 1 rule in 1 post... which is all it takes for any member on this board to recieve an infraction. Just like its been for as long as I've been a mod and beyond.

The same goes for any one person you mentioned. 1 post that broke 1 rule. We do not level the severity of the rule broken based on your forum pals or people you dislike, or based on who the member is whatsoever. Its based on the content of THEIR posts that they CHOOSE to type.

It has nothing to do with freedom of speech of diveristy of opinion. That is all secondary under the rules of the forum, which if broken, will cause action.

If you'd like the mod staff to use our opinions of other members to infract then I would find this forum far worse then you can imagine, with far more members leaving the board. The truth is that the rules are what you guys don't agree with and have yet to use the feedback thread to voice those complaints, help construct a better rule-set that you think would benefit everyone equally.

2) Thread Misplacements.

The second issue on the list starts with a simple question - why do we even have the conspiracy theory section if conspiracy theories are allowed to escape it. We are all well aware some people are dumb enough to believe that Obama was not born in Hawaii, or that the International League of Zionist Homosexuals or whatever controls the government - however, we have this thing called the conspiracy theories forum. We know that mods can move threads, how about you start putting the threads in the right places?

How about you start reporting these threads as "out of place" and we will put them in their appropriate catagory? I hardly see this as an issue at all since its not really hard to determine what you feel is a conspiracy, then report that to the mods so that we can take care of it.

Case closed as far as I'm concerned. There isn't a mod duty that states we have to get on the forum and assure all threads are in the proper category. Occassionally we might see an obvious out of place thread and move it to another category better suited, but if we don't, I think it would be a champ of an idea if we, mods and members, worked as a team to note out of place threads by using the report function as indication.

3) Prohibition of Stating Points of Fact.

Calling someone a racist when they clearly are a racist is not offensive speech in the least, and that's all that needs to be said.

Perhaps it isn't offensive. Turning whatever issue into a personal issue of labels is a distraction and stifles debate. Some would call THAT trolling. People running around the board dropping their opinion of other members is not debate, nor healthy, its trolling. It serves no purpose other than to inflame. If you can't converse with someone who has an opinion so diversely different than yours, without throwing out labels personal in nature, then you probably shouldn't.

As I have said before, we have lost good members and are in danger of losing more because these issues are unresolved. Now, before one of the mods locks the thread because they can't take the heat, let me just say this - you can give us the same hallmark corporate reply every time, but until we actually see you taking action your words are worth absolutely jack shit.

Sounds like your mind is made up. Are you willing to discuss this indepth or are you under preconcieved opinion that will not allow you to discuss this unless we "take action!" I'm unclear why mods, or anyone needs to be backed into a corner of ultimatum in order to resolve issues.

I can't say the mods, the rules, or the members here are perfect, we together collectively are clearly imperfect. Makes a great stage for creating something closer to perfect if we are willing to work together on this and find a solution that could benefit everyone equally. If mods are to honor the note of inconsistency then the members should note their lack of personal responsibility for what they choose to write, which comes about when they are infracted. Consistently.

So far in this thread I have yet to see any constructive solutions to these problems. Most of the solutions I've heard in the past are;

"ban this asshole and do it now!!!!"
"how can you infract me when ______ is doing this?"
"i'm leaving!!"
"mods are biased against _____ group of people."

I've always been interested in discussion and possibly the alteration, translation, and ammendment of forum rules. I'm interested in constuctive critique and solutions to bridge whatever gap appears. JL, when leaving offered up some food for thought and I've been thinking about that ever since. I wish he could have stayed around long enough to participate in a feedback session that could possibly resolve such issues, if for only that.

So, my question to you Aus, what solutions do you have to offer for these 3 issues?

Originally Posted by Ausinus

No I am not letting these issues go, and no I do not give a flying fuck if any of you call this "whining". These are real issues that need to be addressed as soon as possible, we have already lost quality members and are in danger of losing more because they remain unresolved.

I'll see how I can do answering your questions. I do get the opinion, though, that not one of us will be able to satisfy you to the extent you desire. I say this because it sounds like you want a black and white answer for where there is not one. Let's see.

Originally Posted by Ausinus

1) Moderator Inconsitency.

The biggest issue, and most dire. It is abundantly clear that the moderators lack a sense of consistency when it comes to dispensing punishments - case in point is Defensor. It is quite apparent he has no interest in debating whatsoever, he is merely a troll. I am aware that he is temp banned, however he was only put on a temp ban after a HUGE and repeated string of complaints. Meanwhile, members such as myself, Bourne, Zarathustra have been placed on temp bans for things far minor than he has done, and a huge number of other members have been infracted for far less as well. Cite "freedom of speech" and "diversity of opinion" all you like, it does not change the fact that different standards are applied to different members.

First, the same standards are applied to all members here. Whether you believe it or not and want to debate it or not is mute. The FACT is that there are no protected members on this site.
Secondly, are the mods inconsistent? Yes, I would probably say it appears that we are. Fact is that most of the quality members in which I believe you are referring would have long ago been banned had we followed the rules to a tee every time. But, what we do is try to interpret what is going on in threads. Can a member ride another member in fun? I mean there are friendships on this site right? But, the strict interpretation of the rules does not allow this. So what we do is try to interpret what is being said between people. This would appear, in the end to be inconsistent, when in reality what we are trying to do is make it a place where we can enjoy one another on this site and debate at the same time. I know that this doesn't completely answer your complaint, but all I can say is that when we ahve subjective rules, members and mods, the system is going to be subjective. I laugh when I see some reported posts and notice that the left always reports the right and vice versa, rarely, although it does happen, does politically ideology stay out of even reported posts. So, when one ideology appears to want to rid the other ideology, and vice versa do you suggest we ignore those intentions? There is a lot to take into account here and I have said quite openly and many times in the past, any real suggestions to try to improve upon the rules and system we have here would be accepted.
I will also say that if we all acted like adults, read the rules and followed them, we would not have a single problem here.

Originally Posted by Ausinus

2) Thread Misplacements.

The second issue on the list starts with a simple question - why do we even have the conspiracy theory section if conspiracy theories are allowed to escape it. We are all well aware some people are dumb enough to believe that Obama was not born in Hawaii, or that the International League of Zionist Homosexuals or whatever controls the government - however, we have this thing called the conspiracy theories forum. We know that mods can move threads, how about you start putting the threads in the right places?

First of all, I agree. Lets get rid of the conspiracy section. I would be more than happy with that.
Secondly. I am not sure you want us moving threads do you? I explain this by saying that you don't seem to have the faith in us to interpret posts as they pertain to the rules why the faith to move posts as they pertain to the section title?
Lastly, I emphasize my last point by saying I would first start by putting all the threads that say these stimulus packages will be good for the economy right into the conspiracy section because it is certainly a plot to ensure our country's long term demise. Do you agree with that is where those threads belong?

Originally Posted by Ausinus

3) Prohibition of Stating Points of Fact.

Calling someone a racist when they clearly are a racist is not offensive speech in the least, and that's all that needs to be said.

Once again, I agree. Anytime that anyone on here says that they are a racist, no one will infracted for calling said member a racist. However, if your interpretation of ones posts leads you to an opinion that one is a racist, then it is against the rules to call someone that based on your opinion. That is akin to calling someone an asshole because I interpret they are acting like one.....no difference, still against the rules. Fact is that name calling is generally insulting and immature and it should put a light bulb off in your head that when you are calling someone names there is a decent probability that you are going to get infracted for it.

Originally Posted by Ausinus

As I have said before, we have lost good members and are in danger of losing more because these issues are unresolved. Now, before one of the mods locks the thread because they can't take the heat, let me just say this - you can give us the same hallmark corporate reply every time, but until we actually see you taking action your words are worth absolutely jack shit.

Once again, many of what you may refer to as quality members would have already been banned had we followed a strict interpretation of the rules. My personal belief, is that a looser interpretation of the rules is in itself what makes this site enjoyable and keeps members here. The few that we lose because they are unhappy with the moderation I wish them well in finding another site that allows the same openness and quality of debate without immediate fear of being banned. It is imperfect, but I have yet to meet anything or anyone that wasn't.


Now my turn, if you can take the heat. Why is it easier to break the rules and bitch about your infractions and then blame it on the moderation than it is to just post within the rules? If everyone would just worry about what they typed individually and not worry about what other people are doing, this site would be better. So why? Why can you not stay within the posted rules of this forum regardless of what anyone else is doing? Just talking about Ausinus here.

Originally Posted by freecell

Defensor brings a lot more to the board than some here. If it’s not him it’s someone else all of you don’t like. Lets see Tick, Notmyrealname, Conservative, and the list goes on. I am sure I am on your list too. The mods made it clear not to attack the poster but the post. I don't see him as racist at all. Go by the rules and stop bothering the mods.

LOL, as long as they're religous and conservative it doesn't matter how rude or racist they are right?

There are plenty of other boards on the internet.

And I still say Defensor should've been banned a long time ago with the stuff he's said about Jews.

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

And I still say Defensor should've been banned a long time ago with the stuff he's said about Jews.

Did this "stuff" he said about Jews conflict with the rules of the forum as they are written or your opinion of Jews and/or a member?

Originally Posted by johnflesh

Did this "stuff" he said about Jews conflict with the rules of the forum as they are written or your opinion of Jews and/or a member?

He said they followed a sinful religion and were damned to wander the earth in shame until they converted.

He's said some other things but that's the thing I remember. I also think it's obvious that "Obongo" is meant to imply a racial slur, especially since he never denied it upon my asking him.