Thread: Thoughts On Education

Public Education is not failing students. According to No Child Left Behind, public education is actually steadily increasing by small increments; API.

So why is it in international studies on mathimatics and the sciences, American students are steadily falling behind?

Students in specific foreign nations are out pacing American students.

Why?

I purpose the following reasons;

1) The Flattening of the world~ "The World is Flat"
Due to the internet and other factors, no longer do Indian Engineers or Chinese Computer Programmers have to move to America in order to make money. Many corporations are moving large parts of their R&D to these two countries.

2) The Ambition of Foreign Nations
A brief look in history, America was not always a super power. In fact at one time America was a second rate nation with almost no military might. America had a "little man's complex" as one of my favorite historians put it. But at the same time, America had big dreams and large ambitions, Monroe Doctrine and the expansion of the US to the Pacific side of North America. Not to mention possible invasion of Canada, or the Caribbean, or Spain's territories.
Now, many Asian countries with large populations are finding themselves with a "little man's complex" This in turn produces students who are culturally imposed to succeed at school, and the family instinct is turned to Grades.

3) The Lack of Ambition at Home.
Students simply are not being driven to succeed.

One example is High School US History Books. These books are at current high school reading comprehension levels. These same books would have been the reading comprehension level of 20 years ago middle school levels. Taken back 50 years, those same books would have passed at elementary levels.

Thoughts?

Originally Posted by Sophist

Public Education is not failing students. According to No Child Left Behind, public education is actually steadily increasing by small increments; API.

So why is it in international studies on mathimatics and the sciences, American students are steadily falling behind?

Students in specific foreign nations are out pacing American students.

Why?

I purpose the following reasons;

1) The Flattening of the world~ "The World is Flat"
Due to the internet and other factors, no longer do Indian Engineers or Chinese Computer Programmers have to move to America in order to make money. Many corporations are moving large parts of their R&D to these two countries.

2) The Ambition of Foreign Nations
A brief look in history, America was not always a super power. In fact at one time America was a second rate nation with almost no military might. America had a "little man's complex" as one of my favorite historians put it. But at the same time, America had big dreams and large ambitions, Monroe Doctrine and the expansion of the US to the Pacific side of North America. Not to mention possible invasion of Canada, or the Caribbean, or Spain's territories.
Now, many Asian countries with large populations are finding themselves with a "little man's complex" This in turn produces students who are culturally imposed to succeed at school, and the family instinct is turned to Grades.

3) The Lack of Ambition at Home.
Students simply are not being driven to succeed.

One example is High School US History Books. These books are at current high school reading comprehension levels. These same books would have been the reading comprehension level of 20 years ago middle school levels. Taken back 50 years, those same books would have passed at elementary levels.

Thoughts?

My mother was an elementary school teacher for 30 years. She taught first grade for most of this time and in later years taught second and third grades. In those later years she noted a decline in the educational level of incoming students. Many third graders were starting out with lower reading and math levels than finishing first graders ten years earlier. The main difficulties she saw in her classes was the decline in teaching phonics in favor of word memorization and a growing reluctance to have failing students repeat a grade (it might hurt their feelings).

I think the problem starts here. If kids don't get a good foundation, it's hard to catch up, much less excel, in later grades.

Also, the educational demands we are putting on our kids are much lighter than those other countries place on their children. And if there are more of them and they are better training their children, we are going to be in boat load trouble....

Originally Posted by Sophist

... One example is High School US History Books. These books are at current high school reading comprehension levels. These same books would have been the reading comprehension level of 20 years ago middle school levels. Taken back 50 years, those same books would have passed at elementary levels.

I challenge this statement. Much has been said about how education in previous decades was "better," when the correct term is "different." Fifty yeas ago, children were frequently taught all the state capitals. Today, they are often not taught all the state capitals. But they are taught the basics of computer programming; a subject that had no application 50 years ago.

Does the fact that your average high school graduate is unable to name the capitals of all 50 U.S. states denote a failing in his education? Is the student lacking a useful skill? Of course not. Times change. Schools change. If schools today had 50 year-old curriculums, it would be a disaster.

Originally Posted by Sophist

Public Education is not failing students. According to No Child Left Behind, public education is actually steadily increasing by small increments; API.

So why is it in international studies on mathimatics and the sciences, American students are steadily falling behind?

Students in specific foreign nations are out pacing American students.

Why?

I purpose the following reasons;

1) The Flattening of the world~ "The World is Flat"
Due to the internet and other factors, no longer do Indian Engineers or Chinese Computer Programmers have to move to America in order to make money. Many corporations are moving large parts of their R&D to these two countries.

2) The Ambition of Foreign Nations
A brief look in history, America was not always a super power. In fact at one time America was a second rate nation with almost no military might. America had a "little man's complex" as one of my favorite historians put it. But at the same time, America had big dreams and large ambitions, Monroe Doctrine and the expansion of the US to the Pacific side of North America. Not to mention possible invasion of Canada, or the Caribbean, or Spain's territories.
Now, many Asian countries with large populations are finding themselves with a "little man's complex" This in turn produces students who are culturally imposed to succeed at school, and the family instinct is turned to Grades.

3) The Lack of Ambition at Home.
Students simply are not being driven to succeed.

One example is High School US History Books. These books are at current high school reading comprehension levels. These same books would have been the reading comprehension level of 20 years ago middle school levels. Taken back 50 years, those same books would have passed at elementary levels.

Thoughts?

All of that is a factor but I still still think that you are overexagerating on the childishness of our current High School US Histroy Books. I don't think those have declined very much, but it is that students just don't try to learn them.

However, I have to always put the problem with the government because public school teachers don't get paid as much as teachers in competiting countries. That reduces the retension of teachers because they will look for better paying jobs and similarily to how American teachers also have more responsibilities then other teachers who would have more assistants.

Your other points are incredibly important as well but I am not sure that I can add anything.

Originally Posted by Nerv14

All of that is a factor but I still still think that you are overexagerating on the childishness of our current High School US Histroy Books. I don't think those have declined very much, but it is that students just don't try to learn them.

However, I have to always put the problem with the government because public school teachers don't get paid as much as teachers in competiting countries. That reduces the retension of teachers because they will look for better paying jobs and similarily to how American teachers also have more responsibilities then other teachers who would have more assistants.

Your other points are incredibly important as well but I am not sure that I can add anything.

I am sorry to disagree with you but for a lot of the teachers that I have met paying them more money wouldn't help their teaching a bit. Example: My son when in high school algebra ask his teacher a question concerning the problems they were studying the teacher did not know the answer and called on one of the smarter kids in the class to answer his question. I strongly believe that if the students are going to have to pass a test to graduate regardless their grade average, his being 3.9, The teachers should have to be tested yearly to keep and maintain the teaching level of the schools. That could be another point to add. Almost forgot, the kids history books have been examined by some professor and he has found a multitude of mistakes. That was the point I was trying to get across when I went up the other rabbit trail.