Thread: Man to sell kidney to buy home

Before I say anything else, I want to say this:

Biffa: Thank you very much for voluntarily adding your name to the potential donor list. I cannot begin to tell you what that means to me, or anyone else who is looking for any hope that they can get. And to be willing to share a part of you to improve/extend the life of others shows just how selfless you are. Thank You.

Next, Thank you Poison, Balzizras, and Hyakitaki. I honestly was feeling a bit alone here, and I really thought I was the only one that felt the way that I did. Balzizras, thank you for the essays and links. I've now got this thread bookmarked and will make every point to read each one of the pages you have suggested. They brought up points I never thought of, as well as put into words better than I could to responses to some concerns/points of others.

I also do thank everyone else: Bossman351, Lemon, and Theophneia (I think this is everyone) as well as anyone that does read this thread, and/or contributes to it no matter what your belief is.

To anyone who felt I was being condescending or disrespectful toward their thoughts or beliefs, I really wasn't trying to do that. This subject is just something important to me. I don't deny that this was an issue to me before I got "sick", but the fact is, it affects me now. The average person is not confronted with such an uncontrollable life situation, and they shouldn't have to be. The way I have seen it is that the answer is RIGHT THERE, and everybody is either putting it on the back burner, or fear such a change, or believe it is morally or ethically wrong, but we do understand what you are saying. I guess I'm just on the other side of the spectrum looking in, seeing that it is morally or ethically wrong to want myself (and others) to be as "normal" as we can be, with what I feel is logical proposition.

The initial "fuel to the fire" was about a person who would be willing to sell his kidney with something in return. My belief is that he was offering something for a price. What he is offering, is something I want. I highly doubt that he'd just give it to me out of the kindness of his heart. Just like the pharmacy/insulin analogy put forth above. Why is it that we are expected to pay for medications, yet receive an organ for free? We pay for medications, therefore companies are more than willing to produce more. Why can't the same be for organs? Why does the government "expect" that organs must be free? Why not use the same logic with medications? Yeah, I know. It's not that simple. Well, it's not that complex either. I would never expect to receive medications for free. Somebody sacrificed time, energy and money to produce something to improve/enhance my quality of life. The same can be said to a live donor. They too are sacrificing time, energy, and their own money, not to mention literally a part of themselves for just the same result. Shouldn't they have a right to make their own decisions on this issue?

I'd like to actually bring up another thought. Families of loved ones that have passed on, but have had their organs harvested (by choice of the loved one, and their family) should be *AT LEAST* compensated for *AT LEAST* the costs of the funeral. My gosh, because of them, potentially a half dozen others have a second chance in life! Man, even if the day never comes to be able to buy/sell organs, at least do that! Again. by choice!

Next, it was brought up about children. I would expect that regulations would be set forth to not allow parents to bank on their kids. The best part of allowing compensation to organ donors is that rules can be set forth, and it can be regulated.

I've known about the "black market". There was a 60 minutes special within the last couple of years that followed a person as he illegally received a kidney. I won't blow smoke up your ***. If I had the money, I would risk potential death and prosecution trying to get a kidney. And if I got caught, I'd do it again, and again, and again, until I was successful, or I had nothing else to give. And if people were to criticize me for doing it, at least I'd still be alive to hear it! But I would *MUCH* rather have it regulated because it would be safer, more affordable, and maybe even covered by insurance.

Take it easy
KidneyBoy

PS Lemon: I bet if it was as important to you as it is to me, you'd feel this wasn't "too much" :lol: :lol: :lol:

PSS Dang computer crashed 1/2 way through writing this, so I had to start all over. Man it's hard to try to remember everything you said previously

nah, it wasnt too much

What do you think about the cloning of yourself for the harvesting of completely compatible organs?

Originally Posted by Hyakitaki

What do you think about the cloning of yourself for the harvesting of completely compatible organs?

Personally, I do not fully understand everything about cloning, but I will say this and from what I know, and I believe I have heard reported:

To actually CREATE an entire human for the sole reason of using it to harvest body parts just isn't right. For starters you ARE creating a human, and I believe in human rights.

Furthermore, if I did not believe the top statement (and honestly could care less about life *WHICH I DON'T*, the time that it would take for those organs to develop and mature to the point where they would be effective, I would probably be dead.

But if it could be done, that's probably going to be the closest match to an organ that a person could get, so there would be an EXCELLENT chance that it would be a PERFECT match, in which case anti-rejection drugs would probably not be needed, and there's an excellent chance of the organ never being rejected.

Unless they develop a way to clone a kidney without the development of human life, and with the information I've heard so far, I would be against it.


I'm not sure if this is what you meant, or if you were actually trying to get into the "Stem Cell" issue.

Take it easy
KidneyBoy

Originally Posted by Hyakitaki

What do you think about the cloning of yourself for the harvesting of completely compatible organs?

Correct me if Im wrong because Ive never researced cloning but wouldnt that be some kind of an oxymoron there? If the human that were cloned was indeed a clone, wouldnt the organ needed to be harvested be destined for failure also? If all the DNA were exact and every thing were truly a clone, it seems that cloning for the purpose of organ harvesting would be pointless.

On another note, I agree with you Kidney Boy on being able to compensate the families of deceased organ donors. Back in 03 my 19 year old cousin was shot in the head and he was an organ donor. They were able to use his heart, liver and kidneys and each saved a life. When he died, my family was broke and had to actually work out a payment plan with the funeral home and my grandparents gave up thier funeral plots because there wasnt enough money to buy a new plot in the short time that we had. Had it been possible to recieve some sort of compensation for his organs, it would have been one less worry that we would have had to deal with over his death.

That also brings me to another thought. If it were legal to sell organs, how many people do you think would continue to donate for nothing? You would have people keeping thier organs in death simply because there wasnt going to be any money in it for them. Im still not saying that its the worst idea b/c it truly would bring more people to the table that were willing to give them up but maybe if there were regulations and price caps so that the amounts couldnt get outrageously unaffordable to individuals and insurance companies. I will say that with this discussion I havent completely changed my mind on the subject but heariing from many different point of views has broadened the way I look at the subject now.

Originally Posted by Bossman351

Correct me if Im wrong because Ive never researced cloning but wouldnt that be some kind of an oxymoron there? If the human that were cloned was indeed a clone, wouldnt the organ needed to be harvested be destined for failure also? If all the DNA were exact and every thing were truly a clone, it seems that cloning for the purpose of organ harvesting would be pointless.

Well, in my case, I developed an autoimmune disease that attacked my kidneys. Basically the "disease" was not directly in the kidney, but suffered the consequences from the disease. Also, if my disease could have been caught and controlled earlier, then my kidneys would have suffered little to no damage. (FYI my disease is now under control and in remission). This would also be similar in the case of somebody losing their kidney function due to high blood pressure, and I would presume also with patients with diabetes. I would also assume that there wouldn't be an issue with people that drink their livers to "death". I'm sure there is cases where indeed a perfect "clone" wouldn't make sense, but I'd bet eventually they could track the DNA that causes the inperfections, and change them as needed.

Just a side note, and off-topic, but it just came to mind: Did you know that a patient that is diabetic with kidney failure can, in addition to receiving a kidney, request a Pancreas? By doing this, the patient literally is no longer diabetic! It blew me away to hear that, but there was actually a speaker who had received the pancreas in addition to a kidney, and was doing great! I guess that the pancreas is a bit more of a tempormental organ to transplant, but once it's under control, it successfully controls blood-sugar levels! Anyway, back to being on subject......

Originally Posted by Bossman351

On another note, I agree with you Kidney Boy on being able to compensate the families of deceased organ donors. Back in 03 my 19 year old cousin was shot in the head and he was an organ donor. They were able to use his heart, liver and kidneys and each saved a life. When he died, my family was broke and had to actually work out a payment plan with the funeral home and my grandparents gave up thier funeral plots because there wasnt enough money to buy a new plot in the short time that we had. Had it been possible to recieve some sort of compensation for his organs, it would have been one less worry that we would have had to deal with over his death.

That really sucks about your cousin. To die at 19 just isn't right. I know you weren't looking for it, but I'm sorry for your loss. If I can add anything, thanks to him and his family, he has given the gift of life to other people, which does by NO MEANS make losing his life right, but I do hope that your family can take some comfort in that others live on thanks to all of you. And honestly, it is sad that your grandparents had to sacrifice their future that they thought they had secured (let alone their grandson). By ALL means, there should have been some help/compensation because he/your family really made a difference. You know the Hospital and DR's got their cut for their "sacrifice" and oppertunity your donating cousin provided. Why not try helping ease the pain(s) of grieving families that already have enough to deal with as it is? Everybody involved is making out, either by quality of life, or due to providing a service BUT the family, which receive absolutely nothing. Yeah there's the "thank you's" and "he's made a difference", but if "kindness" was enough, why wouldn't the hospital and dr's expect nothing in return for their "services"???

Although maybe have not changed your stance or opinion about the INITIAL topic of selling a kidney to buy a house, I do appreciate that you have taken the time to read through all of this, and that it does at least have you looking at it differently. Honestly, even if just the above paragraph were to ever be rectified, it alone would make all the difference in the world (I believe).

quoting lemon:
Take it Easy
KidneyBoy

Originally Posted by Kidney Boy

Just a side note, and off-topic, but it just came to mind: Did you know that a patient that is diabetic with kidney failure can, in addition to receiving a kidney, request a Pancreas? By doing this, the patient literally is no longer diabetic! It blew me away to hear that, but there was actually a speaker who had received the pancreas in addition to a kidney, and was doing great! I guess that the pancreas is a bit more of a tempormental organ to transplant, but once it's under control, it successfully controls blood-sugar levels! Anyway, back to being on subject......

Actually, I did know that. There was a man that worked where I do who had to take an early retirement with disability because of his diabetes. He was losing his eye site and his circulation. He had the surgery and now his diabetes is completely gone. Before the surgery, he was dependant on an insulin device constantly attached to his side. now he doesnt even have to think about insulin. In fact, he is looking for a job to get back into so that he wont have to rely on disability anymore. Quite a success story if you ask me.

indeed bossman, quite a success story 8)

and kidneyboy, you said something about your disease going "into remission." does this mean its taken a back seat position and just sitting there, or is it being slowly removed from your body system?

Originally Posted by lemon

indeed bossman, quite a success story

and kidneyboy, you said something about your disease going "into remission." does this mean its taken a back seat position and just sitting there, or is it being slowly removed from your body system?

Well I believe I mentioned it above, but the disease I have is called "Lupus". Basically this disease is quite distructive in that it causes your immune system to be overly-aggressive and attack your organs. For the very unlucky, it attacks the brain and/or heart in which case the mortality rate is high. In my case, it attacked my kidneys, eyes, lungs, and liver. It also attacks the joints in your body and I still get those every couple of months (the joint pains) The way to fight this disease is using steroids and/or chemo therapy to basically fight off your immune system (I've had both.) This will also put it to "sleep". Basically it's there, and always will be and it's sleeping, but there's always the risk of it coming back, but in most Lupus cases, it never becomes fully active (just little flare-ups here in there causing joint pains). I am on a daily dose of prednisone that pretty much ensures it stays at bay. Ironically the same medications you take for a transplant also keep the disease at bay, because that's exactly what you try to accomplish by taking anti-rejection medication. So in my case the rheumatoligist has recently commented that if the disease wasn't documented as well as the damage it caused, there is NO sign of it in my body at this time (which is good news for me). But we know it's there because it never completely goes away (and I get the horrible joint pains every so often.) So in a nutshell, it's sleeping and *LIKELY* will stay that way (but is no guarentee.)

I hope that makes sense. I just got back from the Seahawks game a bit ago, and man I'm tired. I hope that what I tried spewing out of my mind was understandable. If it wasn't LMK and I'll try to better explain anything.

Take it easy
KidneyBoy

say what?


heh, well thats good to hear ( except the occasional joint pain flare-ups )

and the seahawks just barely won... i know, i saw it on tv 8)